April 14/04 Report
continued - Part Two
(from Corporate Administration Committee Report to and incl. Discussion on Stoney Creek Non-profit Housing Corporation and listing 6.5 Community Services and 6.6 Strategic Planning & Budgets)

6.3 CORPORATE ADMINISTRATION

6.3 Corporate Administration Committee, Report 04-007 - April 7, 2004

(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/Corporate-
Administration/2004/Apr07/Corp.%20Admin.%20Report%2004-007.pdf)

(FERGUSON / HORWATH - CARRIED)

Mayor DiIanni : "Members of Council, the Corporate Administration Committee presents its seventh report and respectfully recommends - Councillor Ferguson."

Ferguson : "Mr. Mayor, I would like to say this at the beginning, I have a conflict on 6.3-3." ( see

Monthly Status Report of Tenders and Requests for Proposals for February 2004

CS04023(a) (City Wide) from dated March 15, 2004:
http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes
-reports/corporate- administration/2004/Apr07/FCS04023
(a)%20February%20Tenders%20and%20Requests%20for%20Proposals.pdf)

Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you, staff will record that please."

Ferguson: "A relative's an employee of one of the" (couldn't hear the exact word, but I think

it was "awards" regarding the awards of tender.)

Mayor DiIanni : "Right, item # 1 . . . question, Councillor McHattie."

Item #1

" 1. Request from Mr. Lorne Leiberman, Executive Director, Creative Arts @ the Tivoli Theatre, respecting loan request toward the acquisition and preservation of the Tivoli Theatre (Item 4.2) That staff be directed to report back to the Committee outlining what financial options/alternatives may be available to assist through the City to assist Creative Arts with their funding request, and that funds in the Hamilton Future Fund that have not be allocated, and the Urban Development Bank be included in the options. "

and in that report where it says "for the information of the committee"

" (e) Delegations/Presentations

(i) Mr. Loren Leiberman, Executive Director, Creative Arts @ the Tivoli Theatre, respecting loan request toward the acquisition and preservation of the Tivoli Theatre (Item 4.2)

On motion the Committee agreed to allow Mr. Loren Leiberman to make his presentation.

Mr. Leiberman appeared before the Committee to request their consideration for funding of a $500,000 interest-free loan, repayable over a 10-year period. Creative Arts is also pursuing funding assistance from the provincial and federal levels, as well as foundation and corporate support. Each dollar contributed will increase in funding from other levels of government. Mr. Leiberman also reported that ownership of the theatre will be transferred from the Sniderman family to Creative Arts on April 16, 2004. Mr. Leiberman distributed a book on the Tivoli Theatre Project, a copy of which is retained in the City Clerk's Office. "

McHattie : "Mr. Mayor, just for the information of Council, I sit on the Hamilton Region Arts Council, on behalf of the City of Hamilton and just to let you know, that they've also been asked to be involved with this project with the Snidermans . . . There's 2 parts to the Tivoli Theatre and as you probably know, through your involvement with them, they are also discussing whether they want to take ownership of the property as well. So, just to let people know there's discussion going on and there will be discussion going on between the creative arts folks that we heard from at Corporate Administration Committee and the Hamilton Region Arts Council. So, it's just an additional player involved and there could be a good partnership - is the way we hope it'll work out to protect the Tivoli now and into the future."

Mayor DiIanni : "I guess I knew that. I had a conversation with Patty Cannon on that and that'll be factored in, once staff gives us the report, I hope. Item # 1 then . . .#6, question, Councillor Collins."

Item # 6

"6. Year-End Receivable Write-Offs (FCS04034) (City Wide) (Item 8.1)

•  That the General Manager, Finance & Corporate Services, be authorized to write-off uncollectible accounts receivable in the amount of $2,187,144.98 as outlined in Appendix "A" of report FSC04034;

•  That the General Manager, Finance & Corporate Services, review all existing Accounts

Receivable Write-Off Policies and prepare a new policy to be approved by Council."

Collins : "Question, Mr. Mayor, I have an amendment, or actually an addition to the motion, here. My concern is that in the write-offs that are in the recommendation - the $2.187 million that we're writing off, there's no mention in regards to possibly doing business with corporations or individuates where we haven't received payment for services or products in the past. So, my addition to the motion would be a part (c) and it would read: that the GM of Corporate Services be directed to set up a system or process to review any future distribution of funds to any corporation or individual for whom funds had been previously written off. So, I'd like our staff to actually go back, if they could, for whatever they have on record over the last number of years; compile an inventory and we'd keep a list of those individuals and make sure that if we are doing business with them in the future, that it's recorded and that information is forwarded to Council. And so, I'd add that as a friendly amendment."

Mayor DiIanni : "Okay . . ."

Collins: "Mr. Mayor, in addition to that I guess I have some concern with the Ti-Cat - the monies that are mentioned in this report" (the staff report is at the website cited below. The item appears in the Corporate Administration Committee's Seventh Report on page 3 as Item #6, which is the same wording as the Recommendation in the staff report.) "I don't know how to be recorded to oppose to that one particular item that's listed in the recommendation. I guess I would have to . . . oppose Part 'A" that speaks to the issue of write-offs. I really believe that the whole issue behind the write-off and that the way that the new terms and arrangement were secured with the new team were one that this council I don't think was involved with. The old council or the new council. I really don't believe it was an above board process. So, I'd like to be recorded as opposed."

Report to Chair and Members - Chair and Members Corporate Administration

Committee (February 26, 2004)

SUBJECT: 2003 Year End Receivable Write-offs (FCS04034 ) (City Wide)

(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/corporate-
administration/2004/Apr07/FCS04034%20Write%20off%20Report.pdf)

Mayor DiIanni : "And, maybe what we can do is simply record your opposition on that item on Part 'A'. Councillor Powers on his comment about the list."

Powers: "I certainly concur with Councillor Collins suggestion. As you recall, most recently we did a review of the purchasing by-law with regards to tender documents and purchasing documents. One of the items that we asked was where there is criminal acts on the part of whether it's the actual vendor or their parent companies, whatever. Perhaps in Councillor Collins and in direction to Staff is that we look at perhaps adjustments to the purchasing document. In other words, an addition be made to those particular documents that if you are in default of payments to the City, you're not permitted to tender whatever towards the city. So, I think that should be included in that same thing. Or just taken as direction."

Mayor DiIanni : "Okay, and that's a friendly amendment. Are there any comments or any disagreements with that. And, maybe what we can also suggest is that staff come back to us with a report on the implications of that. I think that would be smart. Seconder for that? Councillor Kelly. Well, then if it's an amendment, then let's just vote on the amendment . So, let's vote on the amendment first." (i.e. to add a part (c) noted by Councillor Collins) "All in Favour?" (can hear a number of Councillors say 'Carried') "Okay, that's CARRIED . And now, on the motion as amended, A and B, number 6. All in Favour? And, we're recording Councillor Collins opposed" (to Part A as it relates to the Ti-Cats.). "That carries. Councillor McHattie wants to be recorded as opposed - for the same issue, Councillor McHattie?" (McHattie off microphone notes "yes," for the same issue) "Okay. Councillor Merulla."

Merulla : "I understand where Councillor Collins is going with this particular question. But, I'm a little confused to why we're in a situation where we have to vote against it now. But, we've never voted for it in the past. And, through you to staff, how did we come to this point where we've written off that segment of the loan with the Ti-Cats - that was outstanding with the Ti-Cats, without it ever having come to us before. Through you to staff."

Joe Rinaldo - General Manager, Finance and Corporate Services : "Through you, Mr. Mayor, last summer, or last fall, a verbal report was provided to Council, highlighting the changes in the - that in fact, the legal company that owed us the money had gone bankrupt. We had no legal recourse to cover those courses" (I'm not sure why Mr. Rinaldo used this term - courses - if this is a legal term relating to the monies owed) "and so therefore that's why it's being recommended to be written off."

Merulla : "At that time, Mr. Mayor, should we not have had a process in place where we as a Council could have debated the issue and determined whether or not we wanted to write off that $500, 000 or $700, 000. Or, is this perfectly acceptable practice? I'm just trying to get a clarification on it."

Mayor DiIanni : "The fact of the matter is that we have the facts as they present themselves right now. What might have happened back in November or October or whenever that first came up, we can't undo. But, let's learn from it. Well, let's hope it doesn't happen again. But, lets' learn from it - my suggestion."

Merulla : "Okay, so I guess that begs the question though, are there any other write-offs that are being pursued without Council direction?

Mayor DiIanni : "Well, and that's a good question. Mr. Rinaldo?"

Joe Rinaldo : "No, as a matter of fact, all future write-offs will be coming to Council."

Mayor DiIanni : "That's good. So, again with number 6. All in favour? Let's take the vote again." (a number of councillors say 'carried" off microphone) "Opposed?" (Although, Mr. DiIanni didn't verbally say "Carried," the item as amended did carry.) "With the exception of the individuals who want to be recorded as opposed." (Mr. DiIanni continues with the items in the Corporate and Administration Committee Report) "Number 7 . . .13" (a number of people in the galleries started clapping and loudly vocalizing - I'm not sure why. Councillor Whitehead did clink his glass on item number 13, but the Mayor may not have been able to hear it.) "I'm afraid, I'm afraid it's going to be very difficult to conduct the business of Council. And, this is a public hall. We want people to be in here. But, they need to be respectful of the protocol to allow Council to do its work. I would really appreciate that. Item number 14. Item number 13. Question by Councillor Whitehead on 13. We carried 14; we're back to 13. Go ahead."

Item #13

"13. Connect Hamilton - Create Community Project - Vendor Selection (FCS03057(b)) (City Wide) (Item 8.8)

(a) That the General Manager, Finance & Corporate Services, be authorized and directed to enter into an agreement in a form satisfactory to the Acting City Solicitor, with the following vendors for the Connect Hamilton - Create Community (CHCC) Project (prices exclusive of PST and GST):

(i) Navantis Inc. for Portal and Integration Services implementation for a cost of $730,189; for E-Commerce Services implementation for a cost of $377,291; and for Web Casting Services implementation for a cost of $98,048;

(ii) Xwave Solutions Inc. for E-Registration Services implementation for a cost of $60,000;

(b) That the total capital cost of the Portal project as per Table 2 of report FCS03057(b), be approved. The total net capital requirement funded by the City remains unchanged at $575,000 as per the approved 2003 Capital Budget. "

Whitehead : "In fact, I was clinking my glass on 13, then I think we were interrupted. I was there at committee at the presentation of the Portal. And, I tell you, the partnerships that evolved through this process and the work of Staff to open up a whole new medium and access to the broader community is commendable. And, I just wanted to make that comment before this passes by.

Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. So, on 13, please, all those in favour? That's carried. Counicllor Horwath, we shouldn't let this go by without some comment. So, please, 14."

Item #14

" 14. Funding for 60th Anniversary of D-Day (Item 9.1)

That an amount of $2,000 be approved from the Legislative Contingency Fund, to be used toward events planning for the 60th Anniversary of D-Day on June 6, 2004."

Horwath : "Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Actually, I met with an 85-year old war vet. today. He was very concerned that the City of Hamilton does the right thing in terms of an appropriate recognition of the 60 th anniversary of D-Day. He landed on Juno Beach and was involved with that battle - brought me all kinds of interesting paraphernalia and I told him that I'm sure we were involved in some way. I believe that there's all kinds of things happening around the armories and of course downtown at the cenotaph. Can I just get an understanding through you, Mr. Mayor, what this $2000 in this recommendation is being planned for? And who may I then direct further information to - in regards to the veterans that are very, very concerned that the city do the right thing by their history?"

Mayor DiIanni : "Is there anybody on Staff who knows that and if not staff, Councillor Ferguson, you've got something to add to this as well, Councillor Ferguson."

Ferguson : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It was brought to my attention about a month ago by a war vet that June 6 (2004) will be the 60 th anniversary of the, of D-Day. I talked to Anna Bradford. She said a budget of 2000 would do it she intends to have the events around Dundurn Castle - exactly the same time as the Hamilton Tattoo. She intends to co-ordinate all that. If we need a staff go-to person, I guess it would be Anna.

Horwath : And I just want to make sure, Mr. Mayor, through you that the staff are working actually with the veterans committees and with the armories and with - because I didn't hear anything so far about Dundurn Castle. I heard about the Cenotaph and I heard about the armories and I just want to make sure that we're not, as a city, disrespecting the organizations that are already involved and that, in fact, are involved every year on Remembrance Day. So, just may need clarification around that, Mr. Mayor, if I could?"

Mayor DiIanni: "Thank you and I don't know whether any staff has been involved at this point - it doesn't sound that way. But, I've got a couple of speakers - Morelli and Whitehead."

Morelli : "Mr. Chairman, there's been no confusion over this issue. In fact, I was privy to the information that Councillor Ferguson received and obviously, we want to make sure we're coordinated in this activity. We're working with the Veterans' Committee on an on-going basis. And, as recently as today, at agenda review, Councillor Jackson informs me that the Veterans' Committee will be reporting through Community Services which has been really one of the voids. Nevertheless, with that void having existed, there has been a direct communication with the war veterans. I sit on the committee, as does Councillor Merulla. I have kept in constant touch with them. In fact, at the time when Councillor Ferguson's issue came forward, I suggested it go through her (Anna Bradford) and that it will all be co-ordinated. I should also add, that if you work with the Veterans - and they're a wonderful group of people - it will take a considerable amount of co-ordination. But, it is under way and it will be accomplished. And, I can assure you that one of the things that often happens is that they don't always communicate amongst themselves very well, and that's where, in the past, the committee has worked hard with our staff to try to compensate for that. But, I can assure you that this is moving in the right direction in a very co-ordinated fashion. So, thank you."

Mayor DiIanni: "Thank you for that clarification, and I can tell you - and Councillor Whitehead, as well - that former alderman, McCulloch is also interested and I'm sure will fit into the plans, as well. He came to see me some months ago. Councillor Whitehead."

Whitehead : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This is very commendable and very - very supportive of this particular funding. My question is more on process. We have a Grants Committee and I'm just wondering how this found itself here, as opposed to going through that process?"

Mayor DiIanni: "Councillor Ferguson?"

Ferguson : "The reason why I brought it to the contingency budget, newly established by Council was because ending the approval of the budget - which we hope is soon - that will make that money active. The grants process is at least a month and a half, two months away. My only concern in bringing this forward was secure funding."

Whitehead: "Thank you."

Mayor DiIanni : "Second time speaker, Councillor . . ." (Morelli)

Morelli : "I want to salute Councillor Ferguson for that because one of the things he's obviously picked up very quickly is is that: first of all, we're going to do this no matter what - the veterans are going to be supported; they're going to get their money and I think we just went through this at committee this week. We need to avoid the unnecessary delays, because it creates a considerable amount of consternation amongst seniors and veterans. And so, doing it this way, gets it on the table. I salute him for doing that. And, that's kind of appropriate, given the last couple of months here. But, I can tell you that I think that that's the main reason - get it on the table, so the veterans know where they're going and they need to know very early."

Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. We've had good debate on item #14, then. All in favour?" (Able to hear a number of councillors say "carried" in the background.) "Thank you. That carries. Number 15" (Able to hear a number of councillors say "carried" in the background.) "That carries. Councillor Ferguson, may I have a motion on the report?"

Ferguson : "Moved by myself; seconded by Councillor Horwath that the seventh report of the Corporate Administration Committee be adopted and the information section received."

Mayor DiIanni: "Thank you all in favour?" (able to hear a number of councillors say "carried" in the background.) "Carries."

SOCIAL AND PUBLIC HEALTH

6.4 Social and Public Health Services Committee, Report 04-005, April 13, 2004 (to be distributed)

(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes
-reports/Social-Public-Health/2004/apr13/Report%2004-005.pdf)

(Merulla / McHattie - CARRIED)

Mayor DiIanni: "Members of Council, the Social and Public Health Services Committee presents its fifth report and respectfully recommends Item # 1 . . .#7. Number 7, Councillor Jackson.

Item # 7

" 7. Homemakers and Nurses Services Program Termination (City Wide) (HCS03012(b)) (Item 8.2)

•  That Report HCS03012b respecting the Status of the Homemakers and Nurses Services Program Termination be received for information;

•  That the program be reinstated with the addition of intake and case

management, and the cap on intake be removed;

•  That funding for these changes come from the Hamilton Future Fund; and,

•  That staff be directed to continue discussions with the province respecting

uploading the program. "

(before Councillor Jackson starts to speak, Councillor Horwath requests that she be allow to speak first. The Mayor tells her to go ahead.)

Horwath : "Mr. Mayor, I apologize. I forgot to declare my interest in the beginning of the meeting on the food safety and tobacco issues as usual. So, thank you."

Mayor DiIanni : "Fine, we will record that. Thank you. Councillor Jackson."

Jackson : "So, Mr. Mayor, we're on Item 7, then. And, I just want to say, Mr. Mayor, that this is the item regarding the homemakers and nurses services program termination and this recommendation is here before us through the great efforts of our Chairman, Councillor Merulla, who ensured that working with staff and our stake-holders in the community that this item says we will reinstate this program for the most vulnerable of our seniors who want to stay in their homes with just the appropriate amount of home care and support for reinstating this with the addition of in-taking case management. And, that the funding for these will come from our Future Fund, which is the type of thing that that fund should be used for, Mr. Mayor. And also, we're going to continue discussions with the Province respecting up-loading this program. It's where it should be. The previous administration, unfortunately, at Queen's Park down-loaded this program to the City. City Council past-term and this term is going to continue this program for our seniors in their homes in their apartments, Mr. Mayor. It's only about a $350, 000 program. It's the least we can do for our seniors, Mr. Mayor. I'm strongly supporting it. And I want to thank again, Councillor Merulla for bringing this to this point, tonight. Thanks, Mr. Mayor." (can hear people in galleries applauding.)

Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Councillor Morelli."

Morelli : "Mr. Chairman, much along the same lines. I want to take this opportunity to salute Councillor Merulla as Chairman of the Social and Public Health Committee for bringing this forward so early. Number one, it's important to recognize that - I know all of us are impacted by that, in terms of our seniors who require this service and this home care service - so the need is very clear and I think it's always been one that I think we've always agreed that it needs to occur. And, what hasn't occurred in the past, is that we have not dealt with it as expediently as we should have and through Councillor Merulla's efforts, we have brought it forward so that people that know that if they have home care right now to June, can be assured after tonight that they will continue to receive it going into next year and that we will continue to work with the Province to see if we can get funding re-instated where it properly belongs. So, I want to just take this opportunity to say that they Chairman, Councillor Merulla deserves a great deal of credit. We've address the two major needs, which is to provide the service, as well as to inform them and communicate with the seniors in this community who receive home care so that they won't suffer from unnecessary frustration, which has been the case in the past. So, thank you to the Councillor and thank you, Mr. Chairman."

Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you, Councillor Ferguson."

Ferguson : "Mr. Mayor, if I could back track for a second on item five that's really."

Mayor DiIanni : "Hang on a second, then. Let's finish with seven and then we'll go back if you want to back track, alright? Any other comments on seven? All in favour of seven?" (Able to hear Councillors call "carried" in the background.) "And now, we've past five, but go ahead you can make some comments on it."

Item #5

" 5. Career Development Centre (HCS03016a) (City Wide) (Item 7.2) That Report HCS03016a respecting the Career Development Centre be received for information. "

(report can be found at: http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas
-minutes-reports/Social-Public-Health/2004/apr13/HCS03016a.pdf)

Ferguson : "Just a few comments. It's good news for Hamilton. It's a product of the Hamilton Hydro money. It'll put Hamilton at the fore of this type of re-training. It's really good news and I'm glad to see it here."

Mayor DiIanni : "Great. Item #8" (carries) "Item # 9, Councillor Bruckler."

Item #9 (CARRIED)

" 9. Request by Stoney Creek Non-Profit Housing Corporation for Permission to Amend Articles of Incorporation (Item 13.1)

(a)That the June 25, 2003 decision of Council to deny the request of the Stoney Creek Non Profit Housing Corporation to change its corporate status from a municipal non-profit housing corporation to a private non-profit housing corporation be reconfirmed; and,

(b)That the correspondence from the Stoney Creek Non-Profit Housing Corporation dated February 16, 2004 respecting Articles of Incorporation be received. "

Bruckler : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This is with respect to the Stoney Creek non-profit housing corporation. I recognize that the former Council here has dealt with this previously. And, this is of a grave concern to the Stoney Creek non-profit housing board. That particular board is very soundly managed and operated. And it's built up extensive reserves over the period of time that it has been in operation. And, I should point out that neither the former City of Stoney Creek, nor the City of Hamilton have invested any capital into that board's operation. And, further, they have the support of the - I guess they presented the former Council with a petition of about 200 people in support of their request to be considered as a private non-profit operator. And, I guess what the former City of Stoney Creek, back in November of 2000, or October 2000, did in fact recognize their request and approve that particular status for them. I guess what they're doing right now is asking this particular Council to recognize the position of the former Stoney Creek City Council. And, I guess relative to this particular request, I understand too, that the amalgamated cities of Ottawa and Sudbury had, in the past, when this similar type of request was made of them, did find it favourable to grant their non-profit organizations the ability to operate as a private non-profit. And, I think this is also critical, because we're working at a time when we're looking at a situation where we're trying to have our community organizations operate more independently. And, I think this is one of those opportunities where they've asked us, in fact, to operate at an arms length and I think this is a good opportunity to do that. I guess the one question I have, not having perhaps been involved in past years. But, I have certainly reviewed the file and spoken with the City Solicitors on this matter and as well with the staff in Social Housing and I can't determine sort of a down side to this and I suppose that would be one thing, if there is a down side to this particular request, I would like to hear that downside."

Mayor DiIanni : "Well, I have a number of speakers and we also have Mr. Barkwell from our legal department to speak to any legal issues if you're asking specifically on that. We'll have him on stand by. But, I have Braden, Mitchell and Pearson as speakers, as well. Councillor Bra - and Horwath."

Braden: "Thank you, Mr. Mayor, I'd just like to confirm what the previous speaker just said. I think it's useful to have some alternatives in the field - whether it's through a management or a house type. I look at our government and really have too many things to do and not enough money. I remember the figure used in this council that I think we own a half a billion dollars worth of housing stock. Which means, according to industry standards, we should be spending $10 million dollars a year on looking after them. As far as I know, we're not spending half that. So, in an example like this, where we have volunteers. We have community spirit that's being raised and driven. I think we have everything to gain. For those volunteers that are dedicated to doing this kind of work, who are we to say, 'we don't need you anymore; we can do this better'? It remains to be seen whether or not we can do it better and the proof is that, in fact, we can't. So, given that community groups want to champion certain needs and do it on their own. Let's promote that. And let's, if other people want to do the same thing, let's encourage them to do so. So, I think the rule, we've clearly shown that bigger certainly isn't better. So, unless there's some convincing reasons why we do this, I encourage the Stoney Creek Association to continue as they have, 'cause I think they set a good example."

Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Councillor Mitchell."

Mitchell : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And, I want to thank Councillor Bruckler for bringing this forward. And, agree with the previous two speakers about this. That community of Stoney Creek, we had a petition come forward for it. There's been no municipal dollars into this. Seventy per cent not-for-profit housing corporations across the province are set up in this fashion. The local community - the Lion's Club; the Kinsmen Club; the Kiwanis and so on - they support this idea and they have supported the not-for profit housing and would continue to do so in this type of directorate set-up. So, I think we need to support the desires of the Stoney Creek Community. I think that helps the City, to work with the different communities that we have. I know, in part of my Ward, I have Orchard Court Seniors, which is a Glanbrook not-for-profit Housing Corporation. They're still independent and some day they may choose to join the City or stay totally separate. But, it's about supporting the community, Mr. Mayor. So, I would strongly support this, or endorse this from the Stoney Creek not-for profit housing."

Mayor DiIanni: "Councillor Pearson."

Pearson : "Mr. Chairman, again I'd like to thank Councillor Bruckler for bringing this forward. I was here on the presentations the other day, also. And, I just concur with the other speakers. Some information: There's over one thousand social housing providers in Ontario and Stoney Creek non-profit Housing is the best run in Ontario. So, they should be proud of that - and I think we are all proud of that. As was mentioned by Councillor Mitchell, previously, there are other private non-profit housing providers in Hamilton that do include: the Victoria Park Community Homes; Hamilton East Community Homes; Good Shepherd; Wesley Community Homes; McMaster Community Homes; Local 1005 Community Homes; Hamilton Baptist Community Homes, among others that we have in Hamilton. So, they're not asking for anything different that already exists in this community. They have done a wonderful job in providing services to their areas. And, they are no financial impact for the City."

Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Councillor Horwath"

Horwath : "Well, thanks Mr. Mayor, and once again, this issue is on our table and, in fact, Members of Council who were elected in the last term will know, in fact we have dealt with this issue in a more universal way when we decided what we were going to do as a City with our many municipal non-profits. Hamilton - the Old City of Hamilton had them; Dundas, as Councillor Mitchell mentioned, Glanbrook; Stoney Creek and that was the time for this decision. It was a universal decision. It was a holistic decision. It was a policy decision. It was a decision as a result of the down-loading of social housing to the municipality - the amalgamated municipality - and although we've had our arguments about amalgamation, it is a reality and it's one that we have to continue to deal with everyday. Mr. Mayor, I will not support the move that is trying to be made here in regards to this issue. We did debate it wholly, last term. We debated it again at the committee in deference to the new Members of Council, who hadn't had an opportunity to hear all the issues. But, I guess they still didn't hear them because we did get legal advice that talked about the fact that the corporation in question has not done the things that it even needs to do to make this happen. We have heard also a kind of the history of this issue, and although, other municipalities are bought in in regards to the arguments, the fact is when the policy decision was made by our City, it was made differently than the policy decision that was made by the other municipalities mentioned, such as Ottawa and Sudbury. They decided to let all of their municipal non-profits do their own thing. We decided that the tax-payers or all of our individual communities kind of supported those non-profits and should collectively enjoy the assets, the value and the actual units . . . currently held by municipal non-profits - Hamilton, Stoney Creek, Dundas, Glanbrook and the other piece of information that hasn't come out here is that in fact similar to what's happening with Glanbrook is exactly what's happening with Stoney Creek and is is what happened with Dundas as a matter of fact but in a little bit different of a way. And that is the municipal non-profit has been very much encouraged to continue to have its unique community perspective. We have, as a city, been very respectful of the management that's occurring there. We have not, in anyway, made any attempts to take over or do anything like that. We've recognized that that community is a community that has value in the management that exists there, but that overall, as with the rest of amalgamation this is something that is owned by the collective taxpayers of the New City of Hamilton. That's a decision that the Council made last term, Mr. Mayor. It's a decision that the committee, the committee, Mr. Mayor, unanimously recommends that we maintain that position here. And, although I respect greatly, the efforts that are made by the Councillors for the areas that they represent, I think the decision needs to be one of a more holistic policy decision as was made last term. Mr. Mayor, those are my comments and I hope that the rest of Council will support the committee decision that is before you in Recommendation # 9. Thanks, Mr. Mayor."

Mayor DiIanni : "Thanks Councillor Horwath. Councillor Powers."

Powers : "When I had indicated my desire to speak, it was, I recall, we had dealt with this over a number of meetings last year. And I was considering tabling it for a week to allow the report to come back. But, I think all my colleagues have reinforced all the information that came out last year in making that determination. So, I think we can deal with it tonight, Mr. Mayor."

Mayor DiIanni : "Okay. Thank you. I have no other speakers on this issue and just in terms of - yes, I do. Councillor Ferguson."

Ferguson : "Also, Mr. Mayor, I was hoping Councillor Powers would table it. I feel I can't vote on this because I don't know enough. So, short of tabling I'll abstain."

Mayor DiIanni: "So, I'm sorry, are you asking for a tabling motion?"

Ferguson : "Sure."

Mayor DiIanni : "Do we have a seconder? A seconder on the tabling motion. No debate on tabling. All in favour of tabling this issue? Against? The issue stands." (i.e. not tabled) "So, Councillor Mitchell?"

Mitchell : (didn't catch comment/question - tape stopped)

Mayor DiIanni: "If you want status quo - that is to keep the Stoney Creek Non-Profit Housing Corporation within our umbrella - then you have to vote to reconfirm. If this loses, then, Madam Clerk, do I need a motion for reconsideration?"

Deputy Clerk Rose Caterini : "No, Mr. Mayor, just . . ."

Mayor DiIanni : "Sorry, a motion?"

Deputy Clerk Rose Caterini : ". . . a new motion put as Councillor Bruckler wishes."

Mayor DiIanni : "Alright. So, let's take it one step at a time and then see where this goes. So, all in favour - sorry, Councillor Mitchell, again."

Mitchell : "To add to it, Mr. Mayor, we also talked last term about road signs and all our signs out there do say 'Hamilton - a City of many communities' and I've been to many, many functions that talk about the image of the City of Hamilton. But, we want the image of the City of Hamilton to recognize all our many communities and this is one way of being able to do it. So, I would encourage my colleagues to turn this down, please."

Mayor DiIanni : "Councillor Bruckler."

Bruckler : "Thank you. Just one final comment. I think Councillor Horwath had indicated that they didn't fulfill, perhaps, a legal requirement. I understand today, in talking with legal that I believe that they have fulfilled sort of the legal requirement in order to move this forward if the City so - if Council so desires."

Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you, and Councillor Pearson again."

Pearson : "Sorry, Mr. Chairman. But, I think all the information should be on the table. When the presentation was made by our solicitor, he did state that with a special resolution coming forward. and I think that a motion may contain that, that they will meet their requirements. So, I think if it's the interest of this Council that they should be award of that, that this documentation will be provided and that's all that is required. Thank you."

Mayor DiIanni : "Okay, thank you and Councillor Bruckler again."

Bruckler : "I just - Peter Barkwell" (Acting City Solicitor) "is here. Perhaps he could just comment on that before the vote is taken."

Mayor DiIanni : "Alright, thank you. Our solicitor will comment."

Acting City Solicitor Peter Barkwell : "With respect to the issue of a special resolution of the Corporation" (i.e. Stoney Creek Non-Profit Housing Corporation), "late today we received some materials which are put forward as a special resolution. They are not in a clear form and I'm not able to tell you right now, as I sit here, that what we have is in fact evidence of a special resolution, having been passed by that Corporation. But, we have some documentation which we can look at to ascertain whether it meets that test or not."

Mayor DiIanni : "So, what does, if we were to not confirm our previous position, and if we were to then receive a motion to allow the departure of Stoney Creek Non-Profit Housing Corporation tonight. Are we contravening anything that we should be aware of?"

Acting City Solicitor Peter Barkwell : "Through you, Mr. Mayor, I would not want to see a motion from Council tonight which whole-heartedly and unreservedly consented to the change. If Council wishes to consent to the change, I would recommend that it reserve that consent until we can be satisfied that the special resolution has been passed."

Mayor DiIanni: "Okay. Thank you, let's bring it back to Committee. Councillor Whitehead."

Whitehead : "Unfortunately, I wasn't here this past Council who looked at this in a holistic approach in regards to assets, post-amalgamation. And certainly, as I understand it, these non-profits were constituted originally by the Stoney Creek Council. Could I go through staff to get that question answered? Is that the fact?"

Mayor DiIanni : "It is the fact that was on the founding board. And, I can tell you that it emanated from, in fact, Councillor Henderson - Carl Henderson was on" (Stoney Creek) "Council then. And, then, when he left, it was carried on when I came in. So, it was a Council initiative."

Whitehead : "Well, the question that I'm trying to come to grips with is that how is that different than any of the other non-profits that have been folded into the municipal non-profit umbrella. And, I think I need to hear from my colleagues who are supporting this to be pulled out of that umbrella. And, I haven't heard a strong enough argument yet. So, I'm here; I'm listening. But, I need to understand why it's significant to pull them out when everyone else was pulled in."

Mayor DiIanni : "Well, I don't see anybody jumping to the floor, but Councillor Merulla wants to speak. I can speak to that, as well, actually."

Merulla : "No, actually, I was just prepared to call the question, sir."

Mayor DiIanni : "Alright. The question has been called. And, I need a vote on that, right? All in favour of calling the question?" (can hear 'carried" in the background from Councillors) "Against? So, we're going to call the question. All in favour of item number (a)?" (referring to Item # 9(a)) "which is to reconfirm status quo, essentially, just so you know what you're voting on. All in favour of (a)? Against?" (hands up were counted on both requests) "It carries. Item number (b)?" (able to hear councillors say 'carried' in the background) "Against? That carries. Councillor Merulla, may I have a motion on the report."

Merulla : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Moved by myself and seconded by Councillor McHattie, that the fifth report of the Social and Public" (Health) "Services Committee be adopted and the information section received."

Mayor DiIanni : "All in favour?" (able to hear 'carried' from Councillors in the background) "That carries."

6.5 Community Services Committee - None

6.6 Strategic Planning and Budgets Committee - None

Continue to Part 3 starting with Item #7 Motions.