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February 9/05 Report – Part 1 of 4
7:00 pm (actual start at 7:02 pm)
(adjourned @ 9:55 pm)
Members of Council :
- Mayor Larry DiIANNI (present) in 7:02 pm
- Ward # 1 Brian M cHATTIE (present) in 6:59 pm
- Ward # 2 Bob BRATINA (present) in 6:59 pm
- Ward # 3 Bernie MORELLI (present) in 6:54 pm
- Ward # 4 Sam MERULLA (present) in 6:55 pm, 7:40 pm; in 7:47 pm
- Ward # 5 Chad COLLINS (present) in 6:59 pm
- Ward # 6 Tom JACKSON (present) in 6:45 pm
- Ward # 7 Bill KELLY (present) in 6:55 pm, out 7:40 pm; in (forgot to note time back in, sorry)
- Ward # 8 Terry WHITEHEAD (present) in 7:04 pm
- Ward # 9 Phil BRUCKLER (present) in 6:20 pm
- Ward #10 Maria PEARSON (present) in 6:54 pm
- Ward #11 David L. MITCHELL (present) in 6:55 pm
- Ward #12 Murray FERGUSON (present) in 6:54 pm
- Ward #13 Art SAMSON (present) in 6:59 pm
- Ward #14 Dave BRADEN (present) in 6:53 pm
- Ward #15 Margaret McCARTHY (present) in 6:44 pm, out 7:10 pm; in 7:20 pm
(except for start time, my ins/outs not very accurate tonight; there were more, but I didn't get them down)
Members of Staff
- Peter Barkwell - City Solicitor
- Rose Caterini - Deputy Clerk/Manager of Legislative Services & Records
- Lee Ann Coveyduck - General Manager, Planning and Development
- Beth Goodger - Director, Waste Management
- Catherine Graham - General Manager, Human Resources
- Salter Hayden - Deputy Clerk, Manager - Licensing and Election Services
- Mario Joanette - Assistant to the Mayor
- Chief Jim Kay - General Manager, Emergency Services / Fire Chief
- John Mater - Director, Fleet & Facilities
- Tim McCabe - Director of Development, Planning and Development
- Craig Murdoch - Manager of Disposal, Waste Management Division
- Glen Peace - City Manager
- Joe-Anne Priel - General Manager, Public Health and Community Services
- Joe Rinaldo - General Manager, Finance and Corporate Services
- Scott Stewart - General Manager, Public Works
Members of the Media present :
- Cable 14
- Doug Cameron - K-Lite FM
- Ken Mann - CHML
- Eric McGuinness - Hamilton Spectator
COUNCIL AGENDA
Call To Order
Mayor DiIanni : "Good evening ladies and gentlemen, Members of Council. I'd like to call this meeting of City Council to order and ask that you remain standing for the National Anthem, please."
National Anthem
Prayer
Mayor DiIanni : "Very good, thank you. Please be seated. Ladies and gentlemen, Members of Council, I'd like to welcome someone who really needs little introduction to the Members of this assembly, but is coming to us this evening, in a role different from the one that he exercised when he worked for the region and municipality. And I'd like to welcome, therefore, Reverend Mac Carson
(http://www.pppcouncil.ca/nationalAwards_champions.asp;
http://www.hellingman.com/profile_team.htm#;
http://www.vision2020.hamilton.ca/people/board.asp;)
of Ryerson United Church in Ancaster (http://www.hamiltonchurches.com/ryersonunited/) to this evening's meeting."
"Reverend Carson, as I said, is no stranger to most of us here. He was a former commissioner of Social Services from 1974 to 1986. And then, served as CAO of the Region of Hamilton -Wentworth from 1986 to 1995. Mac was born in Ireland. Served as Pastor in the Irish Methodist Church before moving to Canada in 1963. He served as a Minister in the United Church and later with General Council. He's taught Sociology at McMaster University during which time he served as the Executive Director of the Hamilton Wellesley House" (not sure if Mayor may have meant Wesley Centre? http://www.wesleyurbanministries.com/) "In 1995, he became Chair of the Ontario Housing Corporation. (http://www.city.hamilton.on.ca/housing/social-provider/;
http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/userfiles/HTML/nts_1_2495_1.html) Welcome Reverend Carson. And, would you lead us in prayer, please."
Reverend Mac Carson : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It's a pleasure to be back in a somewhat less strenuous position." (hear giggles from Council and gallery) "But, just one thing I would say is that, don't ever ask me to do anything again because, I was Chair of the, or I was the CAO of the Region - there's no Region anymore." (hear giggles from Council and gallery) "I was CAO of Ontario Housing and there's no Ontario Housing anymore." (hear giggles from Council and gallery) "So, if you want the City closed down, get me back." (hear giggles from Council and gallery)
"Let us bow our heads in prayer. Oh God, You Who have created all things and all peoples - peoples of every nation, race and town - You've called us to this place and to the service of this city. Guide all our decisions as they are made, tonight, so that Your children may be wisely and goodly governed. And this we ask, in Your Name. Amen."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you Reverend Carson. And, I did invite Reverend Carson to stay for the duration of the meeting," (hear Reverend Carson say something off microphone, and then hear giggles from Council and gallery) "but he said he's been to as many Council meetings as he wants to be at, so. He is going home to watch it on television." (hear giggles from Council and gallery)
1. Approval of Agenda
(Braden / Bratina - CARRIED AS AMENDED)
Mayor DiIanni : "Madam Clerk, are there any changes to the Agenda?
Rose Caterini - Deputy Clerk/Manager of Legislative Services & Records : "Yes, Mr. Mayor, there are a number of them:" (written below as listed on Council hand-out)
1. Item 6.6 is to be deleted from the Agenda as the Community Services Committee meeting of February 8 th was cancelled.
2. Communications
(i) Communication Item 5.5 is to be received only as this matter has now been addressed by the Corporate Administration Committee and is before you as Item 9 of the CAC Committee report this evening.
(ii) Added Council Communication from AMO respecting completion of a survey which examines the issues of municipal elections and the length of term of office. This communication will be added as Item 5.6 to this evening's agenda.
Recommendation : be received and referred to the Clerk to solicit input from Council and report back to the March 2 nd Corporate and Administration Committee.
(iii) Added Petition by City of Hamilton Employees respecting the Parking Policy. This communication will be added as Item 5.7 to this evening's agenda.
Recommendation : Be received
(iv) Added Council Communication from Joel Farber of Fogler, Rubinoff requesting deferral of Planning and Economic Development Committee Report Item 13 respecting the Flamborough Power Centre. This communication will be added as Item 5.8 to this evening's agenda
Recommendation : Be received
(v) Added Council Communication from Lynda Townsend Renaud of the Law Office by the same name requesting deferral Planning and Economic Development Committee Report Item 13 respecting the Flamborough Power Centre. This communication will be added as Item 5.9 to this evening's agenda
Recommendation : Be received
3. Added Item 16 to the Planning and Economic Development Committee Report
4. Motions
(i) Added Motion by Councillor Bratina respecting funding to facilitate a report for the VIA Rail Task Force. This item will be added as 7.2 to this evening's agenda.
(ii) Added Motion by Councillor Ferguson respecting replacement program for Market Revenue Insurance for the 2005 crop year. This item will be added as 7.3 to this evening's agenda
5. Added Private and Confidential Item respecting Personnel
6. By-law Listing'
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you very much Madam Clerk. I need a verbal Motion to approve the Agenda as listed, as amended. Councillor Braden; Councillor Bratina. All in favour?" (hear councillors say carried) "That's carried."
2. Declaration of Interest
Mayor DiIanni : "Are there any Declarations of Interest? Seeing none, then, we'll move on to Ceremonial Activities."
3. Ceremonial Activities
3.1 Presentation - Ontario Public Works Association (OPWA) Project of the Year
Mayor DiIanni : "And, I'd like to call upon Paul Smeltzer, Vice-President of the Ontario Public Works Association (http://www.opwa.ca/home.asp) and Beth Goodger, Director of our Waste Management, to join me at the podium, please."
"And, I'm going to invite Paul to say a few words, first."
Paul Smeltzer : "Thank you, Your Worship, Members of Council. It's my pleasure, today, to be here on behalf of the Ontario Public Works Association to present to the City of Hamilton, the Over $10 million Project of the Year Award of the Ontario Public Works Association."
"For the last 3 years, the Association have been giving awards to significant public works projects within the Province of Ontario, as well as leadership awards to individuals working in public works and we're very proud to be able to present Hamilton with the award for the: Rennie and Brampton Street Landfill Sites Erosion Control and Leachate Management System. And, I think Beth's going to give you a few words on what that entailed."
Beth Goodger - Director, Waste Management : "Thanks very much, Paul. It's my honour to receive the award on behalf of the Waste Management Division. It's, we're very proud of the Rennie / Brampton remediation project and how through sound engineering, construction and community involvement we've been able to remediate a legacy of our past."
"I think if you drive by the site, now, you can see that the growth is happening. We've restored the Red Hill Creek, the creek-bed. So, we're very proud of this project and the impacts that we've made on the community."
"I do want to acknowledge some of the staff that were involved in this work. It's nice to be the Director and take credit. But, it really is the leadership of John Mater, who is the Manager responsible for the Project, for the past couple of years. And, Scott Stewart, as the former Director of Waste Management. Also, Dillon Consulting (http://www.dillon.ca/Corporate/Operations/Overview.html) with our consultants on this project and we have Patsy Deuver and Bill Allison - who have been incredible leaders for us for, through this project, and were also recognized by OPWA as, for their outstanding service through the Joe Johnson Award. I'd also like to acknowledge ACON Construction (http://www.aecon.com/) for their work on the project. So, thank you very much." (hear applause from Council and gallery)
Mayor DiIanni : "Well thank you. Well done. And firstly, let me, let me say a special hello to Paul and thank him for the presentation. Paul Smeltzer, as some of you may know worked for the community of Stoney Creek as an engineer at one time and then Ancaster where he finished his career in the public service at least, in Ancaster. And now you're working for the Ontario Public Works Association which brings you to a new level. So, it's nice to see you again, Paul. And it's nice to know that everything we taught you in Stoney Creek has turned out well for you." (hear giggles from Council) (hear Councillor Ferguson clink his glass) "And of course Ancaster, as well."
"And of course I want to especially acknowledge and thank, as well, on behalf of Council Beth and her department and John Mater and the other partners who were here tonight, as well for and award that is not only well-received, but well-deserved. So, congratulations again. Well done." (hear applause from Council and gallery)
4. Minutes of the meeting of City Council held on:
4.1 January 26, 2005
(Kelly / Collins - CARRIED)
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
council/2005/Jan26/Minutes.pdf)
Mayor DiIanni : "Members of Council, may I have a verbal Motion to approve the Minutes of City Council Meeting held on January 26 th , 2005. Councillor Collins; Councillor Kelly. All in favour?" (hear councillors say carried) "That's carried."
5. Communications
(Pearson / Mitchell - CARRIED AS AMENDED)
Mayor DiIanni : "Communications, now. Councillor Pearson, may I have a Motion, please."
Pearson : "Yes, Mr. Mayor. It's been Moved by myself; Seconded by Councillor Mitchell that Council Communications, as amended be approved as follows:
"Item 1, Correspondence from the Honourable John Gerretsen, Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing respecting inclusion of the Stoney Creek Urban Boundary in the proposed Greenbelt Plan Legislation - recommendation: be received."
5.1 Correspondence from the Honourable John Gerretsen, Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing respecting inclusion of the Stoney Creek Urban Boundary in the proposed Greenbelt Plan Legislation
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
council/2005/Feb09/Item%205.1.pdf )
Recommendation: Be received
Pearson : "Item 5.2 Correspondence from Clark Hoskin, County of Norfolk respecting Lake Erie Fast Ferry Project. Recommendation: be received and referred to the General Manager of Planning for a report - "
Mayor DiIanni : "I suppose I should be taking notes on each of those, Madam Clerk. Or, are we taking just the recommendation at the end? (Deputy Clerk clarifies off microphone for Mayor) "At the end. Okay, go ahead."
Pearson : " - for a Report to the Planning and Economic Development Committee."
5.2 Correspondence from Clark Hoskin, County of Norfolk respecting Lake Erie Fast Ferry Project
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
council/2005/Feb09/Item%205.2.pdf)
Recommendation: Be received and referred to the General Manager of Planning for a report to the Planning and Economic Development Committee
Pearson : "Item 5.3 Correspondence from MPP Jerry Ouelette, Oshawa, respecting Private Member's Bill - 'Elected Officials Immunity Act 2004.' Recommendation: be received and referred to the City Clerk for a report to the Corporate Administration Committee."
5.3 Correspondence from MPP Jerry Ouelette, Oshawa, respecting Private Member's Bill - "Elected Officials Immunity Act 2004"
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
council/2005/Feb09/Item%205.3.pdf)
Recommendation: Be received and referred to the City Clerk for a report to the Corporate Administration Committee
Pearson : "Item 5.4, Resolution from the Town of Halton Hills petitioning the Minister of Environment and the Ontario Government to implement a system of deposit returns for all metal, glass and plastic beverage containers and mandating reusable plastic drink containers. Recommendation: That correspondence be forwarded to the Town of Halton Hills in support of their resolution to implement a system of deposit returns for all metal, glass and plastic beverage containers and mandating reusable plastic drink containers."
5.4 Resolution from the Town of Halton Hills petitioning the Minister of Environment and the Ontario Government to implement a system of deposit returns for all metal, glass and plastic beverage containers and mandating reusable plastic drink containers
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
council/2005/Feb09/Item%205.4.pdf)
Recommendation: That correspondence be forwarded to the Town of Halton Hills in support of their resolution to implement a system of deposit returns for all metal, glass and plastic beverage containers and mandating reusable plastic drink containers
Pearson : "Item 5.5 is correspondence from York Region respecting Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act, 2004. Recommendation: Be received. "
5.5 Correspondence from York Region respecting Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act, 2004
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
council/2005/Feb09/Item%205.5.pdf)
Recommendation: Be received and referred to the Advisory Committee for Persons with Disabilities for a report to the Corporate Administration Committee
Pearson : "Item 5.6, added Council Communication from AMO respecting completion of a survey which examines the issues of municipal elections and the length of term of office. This communication will be added as Item 5.5 [should be 5.6] to this evening's agenda. And the recommendation: be received and referred to the Clerk to solicit input - sorry, Mr. Mayor - "
Mayor DiIanni : "It's all right." (hear someone talking off microphone) "We're okay? Carry on, Councillor."
Pearson : " - recommendation: be received, referred to the Clerk to solicit input from Council and report back to the March 2 nd Corporate and Administration Committee."
"Item 5.7, added Petition signed Employees of the City of Hamilton respecting City of Hamilton Parking Policy. Recommendation: be received."
"And, 5.8, added Council Communication from Joel Farber of Fogler, Rubinoff requesting deferral of Planning and Economic Development Committee Report Item 13 respecting the Flamborough Power Centre. This communication be added as item 5.8 to this evening's agenda. Recommendation: be received."
"And Item 5.9, added Council Communication from Lynda Townsend Renaud of the Law Office by the same requesting deferral Planning and Economic Development Committee Report Item 13 respecting the Flamborough Power Centre. This communication will be added as Item 5.9 to this evening's agenda. Recommendation: be received."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Members of Council, are there any questions or comments" (hear a glass clink) "And, Councillor Jackson, please."
REQUEST TO MOVE RATHER THAN REFER - " 5.3 Correspondence from MPP Jerry Ouelette, Oshawa, respecting Private Member's Bill - 'Elected Officials Immunity Act 2004' "
(Jackson / Pearson - CARRIED)
Jackson : "Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Item 5.3. I would ask if that if that could be pulled. Or, if I could speak to it, at the appropriate time, Mr. Mayor. I'd like to hopefully get Council's support on that tonight to move forward instead of referring it. So, I'll look to your direction on that."
Mayor DiIanni : "Well, since you're speaking, now, why don't we do that right now, go ahead."
Jackson : "Mr. Mayor, thank you. This is the letter from Jerry Oulette, the MPP for Oshawa, addressed to yourself, Mr. Mayor and Members of Council. He has a Private Member's Bill right now at the Queen's Park Legislature - the Elected Officials Immunity Act, 2004 - which he introduced."
(Bill 165 - http://www.ontla.on.ca/documents/Bills/
38_Parliament/Session1/
index.htm#P843_80777)
"It talks, in essence, about providing - if the Bill is passed - providing elected Members of Municipal Councils, School Boards, the same privilege, immunities, powers presented and granted to Members of the Legislative Assembly; is designed to assist elected officials in Municipalities by allowing more freedom of speech and public debate in chamber settings without the reprise or fear of court action."
"Mr. Mayor, he's got the Private Members Bill before the Legislature at Queen's Park. I think it's timely. It's something, Mr. Mayor, that I had during 2 or 3 unfortunate episodes in the past year, that we've had in these chambers, that we all experienced."
"I had, when we were all e-mailing and calling each other, Mr. Mayor, about what to do for the future. And Glen Peace, our same [City] Manager, I had e-mailed him about the fact that one issue was I felt that with Municipal Councils and our chambers, there's no consistency with regards to the House, in Ottawa and the Legislature at Queen's Park in terms of protection and immunity privileges. Just asking for the same that's provided to our MPPs and MPs."
"So, I want to thank Glen Peace for whatever hand he had in this. And, Mr. Oulette, particularly, the MPP, for bringing this forward. And, Mr. Mayor, if there's no objection from my Council colleagues or yourself, Mr. Mayor, I think it would be timely for us to Move this and endorse it and let Mr. Oulette know that Council supports his Private Member's Bill. Thanks, Mr. Mayor."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Do you have a Seconder for that recommendation? Councillor Pearson. Any other comments, questions, debate? All in favour?" (hear councillors say carried) "That's carried." Councillor Bratina."
Bratina : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, the Item 5.2 is the Lake Erie Fast Ferry Project and I know that it'll come before Planning and Economic Development. But, I would hope that the Councillors will read a very simple page and understand that there was an announcement this morning in the newspaper regarding the Hamilton Goods Movement Initiative."
"And this Ferry project, in addition to a cargo project coming from Erie, Pennsylvania to Port Dover, you have to understand that the next place that once people and goods unload at Port Dover, is Hamilton."
"So, this will be an important initiative - if it's done properly. And, of course we're not saying approve it tonight. But, consider that with all of these transportation initiatives that this could be a key component in our future transportation strategy through the City of Hamilton. Thanks, Mr. Mayor."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you very much for the comment. Members of Council, then, as Moved by Councillor Pearson; Seconded by Councillor Mitchell. All in favour?" (hear councillors say carried) "That's carried."
6. Committee Reports
Mayor DiIanni : "Councillor Pearson, now, a Motion to move into Committee of the Whole."
Pearson : "Yes, Mr. Mayor. Moved by myself; Seconded by Councillor Dave Mitchell that Council move into Committee of the Whole for Consideration of the following Committee Reports:
- Planning and Economic Development Committee Report 05-003;
- Planning and Economic Development Committee Report 05-004;
- Corporate Administration Committee Report 05-003;
- Social and Public Health Services Report 05-002; and
- Committee of the Whole - Hamilton Utilities Share-holders Meeting Report 05-002"
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you very much. All in favour of that?" (hear councillors say carried) "That's carried."
6.1 Public Works, Infrastructure and Environment Committee, Report 05-003, January 31, 2005 - Meeting cancelled
6.2 Planning and Economic Development Committee, Report 05-003, February 1, 2005
(Whitehead / Pearson - CARRIED as Amended)
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
Planning-Economic-Development/2005/Feb01/REPORT%2005-003.pdf)
Mayor DiIanni : "Members of Council the Planning and Economic Development Committee presents its third report and recommends Item #1" (hear councillors say carried) "#2 . #13 (hear a glass clink and hear councillors say carried) "#13, I think there's a comment on that. Councillor McHattie."
COMMENT ON - " 13. Applications to Amend the Hamilton-Wentworth Official Plan, Flamborough Official Plan and Flamborough Zoning By-law No. 90-145-Z for Lands Located Within the Northeast and Southeast Quadrants of Highways 5 & 6 (Flamborough)(PD05026) (Ward 15) (Item 6.3)"
(CARRIED as Amended)
McHattie : "Mr. Mayor, the point in question we're dealing with right now is the Big Box Stores at Clappison's Corners and there's two, as people know, are proposed for the North and the South corners. And, I just wanted to speak from the perspective of the BIAs [Business Improvement Associations] in Hamilton. I Chair the Hamilton area BIA committee and the BIAs are very concerned about big box stores, in general throughout Hamilton - and this one, in particular."
"We have the Waterdown BIA, as you know Mr. Mayor, you're involved with assisting that group at the moment, sitting on that group. And, of course, the Dundas BIA's not very far away, either. And there's a great concern that the big box stores at Clappison's Corners will take away from the business that's offered in downtown Waterdown - in the old part of Waterdown - as well as the old part of Dundas and Westdale Village, for that matter, which is not too far away from this."
"And this is really just an example of a proliferation of Big Box proposals that we're seeing right across this City. There are ones proposed for the Mountain, as well. There's 2 proposed for the Mountain. Just an incredible number of square footage for these developments - something really in the range of a million and a half square feet, if we take all of the developments that are being proposed at the moment."
"We've got to ask ourselves, how much retail can Hamilton handle. How much money do we have here to spend in stores and where are we going to spend that money. If we get all these Big Box stores in place are we going to really just spread the retail dollars across even more than we have right now, which will affect all the BIAs and the small shops that are owned by people from Hamilton - people who have lived in Hamilton their whole lives. And, instead of that, we're building these Big Box stores where it's a Wal-Mart or it's this kind of arrangement where it's a U.S. company in many cases and large-scale organizations that are not only having, in the case of something like even a Fortino's store - not just a grocery store, but it's got everything in there, now."
"So, I believe it's really going to, has the potential to very much negatively affect the BIAs - in this case Clappison's Corner and throughout the area. And, I just had an e-mail sent to me - and I think it went to all Council - from David Dayler, who's the Executive Director of the Westdale Village BIA (http://westdalevillage.ca/main.htm). And, it's an article that's going in the Dundas Star Journal, I believe. And he makes this point, that there's only so much disposable income Hamiltonians have and the amount of square footage that's being proposed right now, is way out of control and the question is: whose interests are served by this sort of development? And, do we want community shopping to move from the BIA areas to these large scale Big Boxes and really we should be looking at the issue of business retention in Hamilton."
"The BIAs have been in place. These stores have been in place for years and years - 10, 20 and 30 years in some cases. We want to retain those businesses. We don't want to see them going out of business. So, I'd like to suggest that there's a very clear connection between Big Box stores and damaging the small retail, that really are very much more than stores. The BIAs are part of the community. They contribute to the things that are going on in the community - whether it be local fundraising activities, putting on local festivals. The Big Box stores don't do that kind of stuff. They're in here to make money and there's really no long-term commitment or long-term support for Hamiltonians."
"So, I really have a real problem with this particular development and Big Box stores, in general. And, I'd like to have us discuss a moratorium on future Big Box stores. Mr. Mayor, you know we're actually doing a retail study, right now, across the whole City as part of the Growth Strategy and developing the new official plan. How can we be developing a retail study, which looks at the future of retail in Hamilton, at the same time as we're moving ahead with the Big Box stores at Clappison's Corners; moving ahead with Meadowlands East, which was part of the ." (couldn't make out the couple of word Councillor McHattie used) "Urban Boundary expansion. Something that was not planned by anyone. It just simply happened. And the other Big Box development that I think is considered for Upper Stoney Creek, as well, which has got real concerns from the Stoney Creek BIA and Concession Street BIA, in particular."
"So, I know that downtown, there maybe some possibility for larger scale retail - you know, a Staples on the second floor, perhaps, of the Eaton's Centre for example. Something along those lines. And, I know the Downtown BIAs feel there's some advantage to that sort of thing."
"But certainly, the ones that we're seeing at the moment are not going to do for Hamilton retail from my perspective - from the perspective that has been shared to me by the BIAs in Hamilton. And, I would ask Council to think hard about perhaps tonight, we may have a hard time stopping this development. It's been through Planning Committee already. I understand that. I want to express my concern and I'll certainly be voting against this, tonight."
"But please, let's look at the other Big Box stores that are on the horizon and consider placing a moratorium on those, in particular, until we complete this retail study and we get a better overall sense as to how this sort of thing's going to affect our other retail."
"I leave you with a comment that there's only so many people in Hamilton to spend their money in retail operations. And, if it's spread out through all these million and a half square feet of Big Box, then we're really going to run into some real trouble and we're going to be back here at this Council table discussing the demise of particular stores and stores that have been in Hamilton, perhaps, for 20 or 30 years - folks who have made a real commitment to Hamilton."
"So, I ask Councillors to consider those comments as we think about this vote, but also think in the future about the additional Big Box that is coming. Thanks."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Councillor McCarthy."
McCarthy : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just to clear up a couple of misconceptions, to begin with this. First of all, this is not a faceless out-of-town developer that's developing the North of Clappison's Corners. In fact, Mr. Rosart (http://www.rosartpi.com/index.html) is a community-minded Flamborough resident that has contributed to this economy for as long as I know. And I grew up in Flamborough. He's a gentleman and he's gone through a very long, drawn out process. And, he's been accommodating the requests and approvals and conditions by both ourselves and other layers of government from the very beginning. So, that's one misconception that I would like to clear up, right off the bat."
"The second misconception is that, you know, this is out of pace with what should take place there. A little bit of history: I've been on Council for the past 11 years and this develo - or development for Clappison's Corners pre-dates me by 10. It has always been anticipated that Clappison's Corners is going to be a developed area and we've been dragging our heels. It really is not the best corridor. If' anybody's gone up to Flamborough, it's, it's not the prettiest sight" [or could have meant 'site,' I'm not sure] "It could be made a lot better."
"And, just to give you a few figures and facts. This development represents $150 million - it's $150 million project. It represents 1, 000 full and part-time jobs; 200 construction jobs. It pays down the Borer's Creek by $200, 000." (see page 3 of: http://www.hamilton.ca/Finance/2003-budget/pdf/
hamilton-development-charges.pdf;) "It produces $5.3 million in taxes to us annually. And, development charges equate to $5.3 million."
"Not to put everything in dollars and cents, but we're in Budget, right now. And that's really what makes the world go 'round. And, I'm tired of spending my dollars in a community that doesn't pay my mortgage - which really is Burlington, because it's closer to me. And I tell you, I'm seeing everybody from Flamborough in Burlington. So, our money's going out of the community. And we know that from the studies that have been conducted."
"So, I understand that the core area of Hamilton and the business community, Westdale, is concerned about attracting the dollars and keeping them in Hamilton. But, they're not. You're losing them to Burlington, anyway. So, that's one issue, I'd like to say."
"We want to talk about quality of life? Hamilton has shopping choices; you also have transit. Flamborough has very little in terms of shopping choices and no transit. So, this represents an opportunity to develop an area that has first of all been on the books for quite some time. It's been slotted for development for the last 15 - 20 years. And, it represents tax dollars to the City of Hamilton."
"Let's see, what else. There's a holding provision. Transportation's going to be brought up, here. There's a holding provision to make sure that Clappison's Corners is dealt with in terms of ingress and egress of safe traffic - both to and from Highway 6 and Highway 5. The Ministry of Transportation (http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/index.html) is going to be dealing with that. There's a holding provision thanks to Tim McCabe and his staff that have ensured that no approval is granted until the holding condition is lifted. Meaning the Ministry of Transportation and our engineering traffic department is satisfied that it's going to be dealt with appropriately. And, at which time that comes back to Council to be lifted. So, we're going to hear about when that lifting is going to taking place and what the recommendation are by both the Ministry of Transportation and by our City staff."
"So, just to recap. We talk about live, working and playing in a community. We're missing a great opportunity by not developing this corridor because there's no, there's very little shopping choices in Flamborough. And, when we talk quality of life, their quality of life greatly has been Burlington. And, I don't think that does us any great service. We've been - not this Council - but the developing industry has been dragging their heels on that corridor for quite some time. I'm anxious to get it approved. I'm anxious see it developed. And I owe - and we all do - Tim McCabe and his staff and our engineering department a great debt for the amount of work that they've put into this proposal, as well as the compromises that have been reached by both the developers on that site. Thank you, Mr. Mayor."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Just a clarification, what you said in terms of this, once the MTO and our engineering staff deal with the traffic issues, it goes back to Committee and at that point, the public is informed and they have a chance to come to Committee, as well. Right. Okay. Councillor Kelly."
Kelly : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I won't belabour this point. I think Councillor McCarthy had articulated an awful lot of the arguments in favour of this particular development. I guess my major concern at this point, Mr. Mayor, if simply this: is this Council has, over the last few years that I've been on this Council, has deemed Economic Development their main priority.
"We want to grow the economy in this community. We've already told the Provincial Government, as we've talked about some of the shortfalls that we are enduring on a yearly basis, here, including social services, that what we want are the tools to help us grow out and become a stronger, more vibrant community. And that means growing our economy; that means attracting new commercial development; that means attracting new jobs to this community."
"We have somebody like Mr. Rosart and some of the other developers, because this is phase I of the development, that will be coming through here, are saying: 'here's our money. We want to do this. We want to help this community grow.'"
"Certainly, there's an economic benefit to them. Certainly, there is. Profit's not a dirty word. We want them to profit; we want the community to profit; we want to increase our tax base; we want to create employment. This is a win, win, win situation for everybody in the community."
"I have a BIA in my area, Mr. Mayor, and we have on-going discussions about the concerns of Malls and Big Box stores. And frankly, I share those concerns because I want to see my Concession Street BIA continue to thrive as it has over the last few years - in spite of the presence of Limeridge Mall, which is one of the busiest malls in southern Ontario. Concession Street continues to thrive because Concession Street is different. Concession Street does not offer the same sorts of things that Limeridge Mall, does."
"Waterdown, the BIA in Waterdown, will not offer the same sorts of things that Big Box stores will. And, Councillor McCarthy's point is well taken, Mr. Mayor. If we don't do this, if we just put our heads in the sand and pretend that this kind of retail shopping doesn't exist, we tend to lose those dollars."
"I've talked to residents of Dundas. I've talked to residents of Flamborough. They go to Burlington, they go to Ancaster to shop because they don't have that kind of shopping there. So, in one instance, we lose those dollars. Those go to another economies."
"We look at Burlington and Halton and say why can't we have a tax rate like them? Why can't we have the sort of growth they have? Well, this is one of those opportunities we have to try to grow and to have those sorts of things. As a matter of fact, this is one of those advantages where we can actually not only emulate, but succeed and supercede what's happening in Halton and in Burlington with these kinds of developments."
"They're looking to Hamilton, now, to come here because they understand that there is a market for this. And, if we don't do this, Mr. Mayor, we're turning our backs on what's happening in the marketplace."
"We need to develop a process where we can co-exist with BIAs and the Big Box situation. I agree with one of our previous speakers. I don't want to see a proliferation of these - certainly not. We have to understand that small business is still the key and the backbone to this community. But, other institutions in other communities have shown that these two can co-exist."
"If we turn our backs on this; if we develop a moratorium on this and say, it's not going to happen, we're not going to see a resurgence of the sorts of '60s boom downtown again. Let's not be naïve. That's not going to happen anymore. We need to reinvent BIAs and reinvent the kinds of shopping and make those destination places. And also, I understand that there has to be this kind of retail in these communities, as well. And, if we don't, if we turn our backs on this, the shoppers in this community have spoken out quite clearly, who will go some place and spend their tax dollars and their retail dollars some place else."
"This is an opportunity for us to grow this economy, Mr. Mayor, which is exactly what we're trying to do. We want to control it, which is why the planning initiatives are in place. I think our staff have done a wonderful job working with these developers to do this. And, I would encourage my colleagues to support this."
"This is what we've asked for this community. This is what we've said we want to see happen in this community. And, we need to move forward with this project, and others like it, with the codicil that we do the evaluation on each and every one of them, as we have on this. Thank you."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Codicil - good word. Councillor Samson - I've got Samson, Merulla, Whitehead and Morelli. Councillor Samson." (hear someone speaking to the Mayor off microphone about some sort of clarification) "I'm sorry?" (more talking off microphone) "Are you chairing this meeting" (hear giggles from Council and gallery) "No, okay. Fine. Councillor, no problems. Councillor Samson just passed on to Councillor Whitehead. Go ahead."
Whitehead : "In fact, I think it's best to have staff respond. I don't believe when it comes back to the Planning Committee the public will have any opportunity to provide input."
Mayor DiIanni : "Well, they will if we determine that tonight - "
Whitehead : "Exactly - "
Mayor DiIanni : "But - " (hear glass clinked)
Whitehead : "But, clearly, we don't have that Motion in front of us."
Mayor DiIanni : "But, I thought we were going to get to that. Councillor - let's get staff to give us the process and then let's see what it is that we may wish to do. Staff."
See Part #2
Starting with next part of Item #6.2 - "Committee Reports" - Planning and Economic and Development Committee - Report 05-003, February 1, 2005
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