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May 11/05 Report – Part 2 of 6
(Continued from Part #1 that ended with Item #5 - "Communications")
6. Committee Reports
Mayor DiIanni : "Now, Councillor Braden."
Braden : (hear Councillor Braden start speaking without a microphone on, couldn't make out what he said) "Mr. Mayor, I'm prepared, then, to Move all items, 5.1 to 5.5 - "
Mayor DiIanni : "But, we've done that - "
Braden : " - including - "
Mayor DiIanni : "No, we've done that. We need a Motion to move into Committee of the Whole."
Braden : "I will do as you say."
Mayor DiIanni : "Okay. Thank you. Seconded by?"
Braden : "Seconded by Councillor Bob Bratina that Council move into Committee of the Whole for consideration of committee reports."
Mayor DiIanni : "All in favour?" (hear councillors say carried) "That's carried. Thank you."
6.1 Public Works, Infrastructure and Environment Committee, Report 05-008, May 2, 2005
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
Public-Works/2005/May02/Rep05-008.pdf)
(Mitchell / Pearson - CARRIED)
Mayor DiIanni : "Members of Council, the Public Works, Infrastructure and Environment Committee presents its 8 th report and respectfully recommends item #1" (hear councillors say carried) "#2 . #5" (hear councillors say carried)
"Councillor Mitchell, may I have a Motion on the Report, please."
Mitchell : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It's Moved by myself and Seconded by Councillor Pearson that the 8 th Report" (hear a noise, which turns out to be councillors clinking their glasses, but they are plastic glasses rather than glass glasses, so you can't really hear it that well) "of the Public Works, Infrastructure and Environment Committee be adopted and the Information Section received."
Mayor DiIanni : "Okay, I heard a couple of - yes, Councillor McHattie."
McHattie : "Still learning the system here - "
Mayor DiIanni : "All Right. Sorry. If you knock your glass, maybe I'll hear - of course these are plastic."
McHattie : "They're plastic - " (hear laughter from Council and gallery)
Mayor DiIanni : "Make some noise, and I'll hear you."
COMMENT / REQUEST on - " (f) Train Whistle Blowing at Carlisle Road and CPR (PW05052) - (Ward 15) Public Works, Infrastructure & Environment Committee Outstanding Business List (P) (Item 9.1)
On a motion moved by Councillor McCarthy and seconded by Councillor Merulla this Item was TABLED in order to allow consultation with the residents."
McHattie : "Okay. Mr. Mayor, I just wanted to add, Information Section Item (f) refers to Train Whistle Blowing in Carlisle. Carlisle Road and CPR, CPR tracks. Just wanted to note that we've got a CPR liaison committee, now, with the City. So, you may want to refer this item to also the CPR committee we have, as well, refer back, for discussion, actually."
Mayor DiIanni : "So, rather than tabling the Information Item (f) is to refer it to that sub-committee. Mr. Clerk, do I need a Motion on that?"
Kevin Christenson - City Clerk : "Mr. Mayor, it was tabled at the Committee. It's appropriate that the Committee refer it to that tier for information."
Mayor DiIanni : "So, where should it go?
Kevin Christenson - City Clerk : "You may want to raise it at Committee."
McHattie : "It's just a recommendation. So, we can pick it up at Committee."
Mayor DiIanni : "All right."
McHattie : "Thanks, Mr. Mayor."
Mayor DiIanni : "Very good. So now, Councillor Mitchell."
Mitchell : "Okay, Mr. Mayor. Moved by myself; Seconded by Councillor Pearson that the 8 th Report of the Public Works, Infrastructure and Environment Committee be adopted and the Information Section received."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you very much. All in favour?" (hear councillors say carried) "That's carried."
6.2 Planning and Economic Development Committee, Report 05-010, May 3, 2005
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
Planning-Economic-Development/2005/May03/Report%2005-010.pdf )
(Whitehead / Pearson - CARRIED as AMENDED)
Mayor DiIanni : "Members of Council, Planning and Economic Development Committee presents its 10 th Report and recommends Item #1" (hear councillors say carried) "#2 . #9" (hear councillors say carried) "Councillor Jackson, do you have an amendment to Item #10?"
REQUEST to AMEND - " 10. Information Request Due to Public Safety Related to Dogs Statute Law Amendment Act, 2005 (PD05116) (City Wide) (Item 8.2)
a) That Report PD05116, respecting Information Request Due to Public Safety Related to Dogs Statute Law Amendment Act, 2005 , be received for information.
b) That Animal Control staff report back to City Council in six months to identify the impact and the needs of the Division as a result of the Provincial legislation banning pit bulls and placing restrictions on existing pit bulls and other dangerous dogs.
c) That the information request due to Public Safety Related to Dogs Statute Law Amendment Act, 2005 , referred from City Council, on March 9, 2005, be identified as completed and removed from the Planning and Economic Development Outstanding Business list."
(AMENDMENT to at a part (d)
"that the Province of Ontario be requested to cover any additional costs that the City of Hamilton's Animal Control Division has incurred resulting from their new legislation the Public Safety Related to Dogs Statute Law Amendment Act, 2005 (PD05116)")
(Jackson / Whitehead - CARRIED)
Jackson : "Yes, Mr. Mayor, I do. This is regarding the public safety related to Dogs Statute Law Amendment Act, 2005 by the Province which primarily is about the Pit Bull legislation. I would like to add a (d) part that says - Moved by myself and Seconded by Councillor Whitehead - " (Councillor Jackson reads his motion, as noted above)
"Mr. Mayor, just briefly, we've heard from Tom Redmond at the last meeting that potentially because of the Provincial new legislation that banned pit bulls, our staff is going to incur some additional costs we never even thought of. And, this is basically saying to the Province, you've enacted it; we're saying to them - you cover the additional costs. And, this is just putting it on the record. Thank you, Mr. Mayor."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Do we have a Seconder for that?"
Jackson : "Whitehead."
Mayor DiIanni : "Councillor Whitehead. Any other comments? Councillor Merulla? No. Okay. All in favour of that?" (hear councillors say carried) "That's carried. Then on Item 10, as amended?" (hear councillors say carried) "Carried."
"Item 11" (hear councillors say carried, and hear a dull knock) "#12" (hear councillors say carried, hear a dull knock again) "#13 - #12, Councillor." (hear talking off microphone) "Sorry, on #12, Councillor Ferguson and then we'll go to 13."
Ferguson : "How about 11?"
Mayor DiIanni : "11 is fine. Go ahead."
COMMENT on - " 11. Harmonization of Discharge Firearm Bylaws (PD05119)(City Wide) (Item 8.3)
That the By-law, attached as Appendix A to Report PD05119, respecting the Harmonization of Discharge Firearms be enacted"
Ferguson : "Mr. Mayor, as you're well aware of, we had on the firearms discharge by-law, we had 3 public meetings - 2, it went to the Ag and Rural Affairs Advisory Committee twice. And, we had a meeting of the stakeholders; a complete buy-in by the community. Two of the stakeholders are here tonight. I'd like them to be recognized. John O'Neil (sp?) and Jim Boyle (sp?) Could you please stand and be recognized."
"It was these 2 gentlemen that, along with staff, that thought that this by-law through - "
Mayor DiIanni : "Excellent. There they are. Thank you very much gentlemen" (hear applause from Council and gallery) "for your help."
"I think we've passed #11, that was just information for us. Thank you. On #12, Councillor, Councillor McCarthy?" (hear Councillor McCarthy say off microphone: 'Mo, on 13') "Okay. So, did we vote on 12? Let's vote on - we did? Okay. On #13, then, Councillor McCarthy."
COMMENT and VOTE on - " 13. Application to Amend the Flamborough Official Plan and Zoning By-law No. 90-145-Z, to Permit an Expansion of Rural Industrial Development for Part of Lot 5, 6 th Concession Road East (Flamborough) (PD05084) (Ward 15) (Item 6.7)
(a) That approval be given to Amended Official Plan Amendment Application OPA-02-12, The Flamborough Group, owner , to change the designation in the Flamborough Official Plan from "Agriculture" to "Rural Industrial - Specific Policy Area" to permit a water bottling plant with accessory indoor uses and open crane storage on lands described as Part of Lot 5, 6 th Concession Road East (Flamborough), to the rear of 381, 383 and 385 6 th Concession Road East, shown as Block "2" on the attached Appendix "A";
(b) That approval be given to Amended Zoning By-law Amendment Application ZAC-02-47, The Flamborough Group, owner , to change the zoning from Agricultural "A" Zone to Conservation Management "CM" Zone to permit conservation uses, and to change the zoning from Agricultural "A" Zone to a modified Rural Industrial "M3-16" Zone to permit a water bottling plant with indoor accessory uses and open crane storage, on lands described as Part of Lot 5, 6th Concession Road East (Flamborough), to the rear of 381, 383 and 385 6th Concession Road East, shown as Blocks "1" and "2" respectively, on the attached Appendix "A", on the following basis:
(i) That Schedule "A-5" of By-law No. 90-145 Z, Flamborough, as amended, is hereby amended by changing the zoning of Block "1" from Agricultural "A" Zone to Conservation Management "CM" Zone;
(ii) That Schedule "A-5" of By-law No. 90-145 Z, Flamborough, as amended, is hereby further amended by changing the zoning of Block "2" from Agricultural "A" Zone to a modified Rural Industrial "M3-16" Zone;
(iii) That Section 31 - Rural Industrial "M3" Zone of Zoning By-law No. 90-145-Z (Flamborough) applicable to Block "2", is hereby amended by adding thereto the following subsection: "31.3.16 'M3-16 ' (see Schedule A-5)
Permitted Uses:
Only the following uses shall be permitted:
(a) A Water bottling plant and indoor accessory uses
(b) Open Crane Storage
Zone Provisions:
(a) Minimum Lot
Frontage.................20 metres
(b) Maximum Lot Coverage....................20%
(c) Minimum east side yard...........0.0 metres
(d) Open Crane Storage:
(i) Maximum Lot Coverage
of Open Crane Storage............30%
(ii) Maximum Height
of Open Crane Storage..........3.6 metres
(iii) Open Crane Storage shall only be permitted in a rear yard and shall be located a minimum distance from the easterly and rear lot lines of 20 metres.
(iv) Notwithstanding any other provision of this by-law, a continuous landscaped Planting Strip having a minimum width of 20 metres comprising a berm and a solid fence not less than 3.6 metres and not more than 4.0 metres in height, shall be provided and maintained along the easterly lot line within the rear yard.
(v) No accessory buildings or structures shall be permitted.
(vi) All other provisions of Subsection 31.2 ('M3' Zone) shall apply." "
(Standing Recorded vote - defeated this Item as it stood, but another Motion was made concerning this application - see part #3 of 6)
McCarthy : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. At the last Council Meeting that we had, there was a Recommendation for this proposal, the Application, of course, in my Ward, to go back to the Planning Committee - and Development Committee [Planning and Economic Development Committee] The same Recommendation come out of that Committee. I'm asking Council to turn that down, the Committee's Motion, and Move the Staff Recommendation, originally presented, in that Committee Meeting."
"For the reasons that it goes against the Municipal Official Plan policies - it goes against the Hamilton-Wentworth Official Plan policies. It goes against the Provincial policies. And right in the midst, it suggests that our staff, it says our staff have suggested to this Council that if they support as is, the way it's come forward, they're going to have to hire expertise outside of City staff because they can't support what Council would be doing."
"So, I'm asking my colleagues to turn down the Motion that's before you, Item 13, so I can present the Staff Recommendation that was presented originally. If I could have Seconder?" (hear someone say something off microphone)
Mayor DiIanni : "Seconded, well - " (hear someone say something off microphone) " - we have a, ya. We don't need a Seconder. We have recommendation. If this fails, right - " (hear someone say something off microphone) "Okay. So - "
McCarthy : "Standing recorded vote?"
Mayor DiIanni : "Well, at the appropriate time I'll do that. But right now, I have some speakers. And, Councillor Jackson, you were next."
Jackson : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Can I just ask a few questions of staff, please Mr. Mayor, because I'm not on the Planning and Economic Development Committee, as a member. Just a few questions, not to rehash this issue because we've been at it for about a month, now."
"I've been lead to believe that way back when, when the applicant was considering the application, that Lee Ann - through you, Mr. Mayor to Lee Ann Coveyduck - that there was a suggestion by staff that the applicant come forward with the entire package as an application. I just need to clarify. There's been some confusing matters on this whole application from my standpoint. Mr. Mayor, through you, to Lee Ann, please, if she can please help me with that."
Lee Ann Coveyduck - General Manager, Planning and Development : "Through you, Mr. Mayor. Staff has always been opposed to the crane operation component of this application. In fact, we worked hard with this applicant to try and convince them to amend their application ." (couldn't make out the rest of Ms. Coveyduck's answer on the tape, sorry)
Jackson : "Okay. Thank you, Lee Ann. I appreciate that. Second question, Mr. Mayor. There's a letter here from Conservation Halton. I'll assume most of my colleagues - or all of them - have it, dated May 2 nd , from a Jane DeVito (sp?), Environmental Planner with Conservation Halton (http://www.conservationhalton.on.ca/)
"It mentions about environmentally sensitive areas up in this Flamborough swamp; Provincially Significant Wetland area up around this area. And, it keeps using the word: 'prior to', 'prior to' Can that be clarified for me, Mr. Mayor. Through you to either Lee Ann or Paul Mallard regarding the letter from Conservation Halton. I keeps referring to and cautioning Planning Department and Council about 'prior to' doing anything with this application. Lee Ann, can you clarify that for me, please, Mr. Mayor, through you."
Lee Ann Coveyduck - General Manager, Planning and Development : "Yes, through you, Mr. Chair. The 'prior to' means prior to site plan approval. In fact, today we did receive confirmation from Conservation Halton that they do not have any objection to the approval of the zoning . " (couldn't make out the next few words of Ms. Coveyduck. Sorry) "So, that is the prior to comment refers specifically to the site plan application and not the zoning" (Councillor Jackson says 'not the zoning' at the same time) "That's correct."
Jackson : "Last question, Mr. Mayor. Through you to Lee Ann for comment. If the Committee Recommendation - which was to approve the entire package that the applicant Flamborough group was asking for, which, well is contrary to what staff recommended denial on the entire package - If the Committee recommendation were to lose tonight, Mr. Mayor, through you to Lee Ann, and the applicant would either obviously have an appeal to the OMB [Ontario Municipal Board] if he desired, or could file a new application for just the bottling operation, anything in the GreenBelt Legislation that would prevent him from - this is if the Committee Recommendation fails tonight - anything that would prevent him based on the new GreenBelt legislation from re-applying, Mr. Mayor, though you to Lee Ann, please?"
Lee Ann Coveyduck - General Manager, Planning and Development : "If you're speaking just of the water-bottling - "
Jackson : "Correct - "
Lee Ann Coveyduck - General Manager, Planning and Development : (can't make out the first part of what Ms. Coveyduck said) ". existing water-bottling plant there, the GreenBelt does allow ." (can't make out the rest of Ms. Coveyduck's answer, sorry, however, my notes indicate that the expansion of the water-bottling plant would be permitted, as it the plant already exists. Also, staff would support just the water-bottling plant)
Jackson : "Lee Ann, thank you very much for your candidness. Mr. Mayor, just briefly, this has been an unfortunate set of circumstances from my standpoint. I went up to personally visit the site on my own, with nobody with me."
"And, I understand the applicant's had a long-standing business there. And, we don't want to lose - especially the Flamboro Springs operation of the business. But, it just behooves me to understand where the applicant could have come in just asking for the Flamboro Springs expansion and application for approval; that Planning staff have said they would be more than willing to recommend in a positive way. And yet, for whatever reason, the entire package has been submitted with the crane component, which staff could not support. And hence, staff recommended denial for the entire report here before us, tonight."
"Now, Committee's over-turned that. And, Committee has said to give them the entire package. And, I've got a Ward Councillor, Mr. Mayor, Councillor McCarthy, who has represented that area for the last 10 years - pre and post-amalgamation - and I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt, Mr. Mayor, to the Ward Councillor in terms of the concerns on behalf of the constituents - the neighbouring constituents who live in the area and the issues they have brought to the table. And again, encouraging the applicant that if this were to fail, that the opportunity for re-submitting just for the bottling would be in a much more positive nature. Thanks, Mr. Mayor."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Bruckler."
Bruckler : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I know the staff have been in a lot of meetings since this matter originally came before Council or before Committee. Has there been any new information with respect to the review and you know the bits of site plan works that has taken underway. Is there any new information that we should be aware of before we make this sort of final decision on this matter?"
Lee Ann Coveyduck - General Manager, Planning and Development : "Mr. Mayor, no there is not any new information ." (couldn't make out the end of Ms. Coveyduck's statement, sorry)
Bruckler : "Or staff's position for that matter, as well?"
Lee Ann Coveyduck - General Manager, Planning and Development : "That's correct. Staff's position is the same."
Mayor DiIanni : "Councillor Bratina."
Bratina : "Mr. Mayor. This has been a difficult process. But, underlying the whole thing is the fact that the proponent is a businessman who holds some property that he's expanding in and around that property. It seems reasonable to say, 'well I have this bottling plant, I'd like to put some crane parts next to it.' Especially in view of the fact that there is a large metal-working engineering concern" (Councillor Bratina names the company, but I couldn't make it out, sorry - something 'engineering limited') "which is adjacent to, larger than, noisier and more invasive than what the proponent is suggesting."
"So often, we've all heard around this table, Mr. Mayor, that we're not helping business, we're putting stumbling blocks in the way, here. I think it's absolutely reasonable - and I understand if I were adjacent to the property, I would wish the whole thing would go away. But, it's not going away; it's a mature industrial site. And, arguments about the agricultural nature - I mean, there's a housing development a block or so away from that, out in the country in the middle of nowhere, which seems to be quite un-agricultural in nature."
"So, we can have all of these arguments and I'm going to stand for someone who has a property who's running a good business, I can't reasonably see why he can't put crane parts on the empty space of his lot. I don't know about all of these other details, I note that staff now suggest that a water-bottling plant is ." (couldn't make out the next few words Councillor Bratina said) " . crane storage would be permitted under the proposal before us. And, I'm in favour of that. Thanks, Mr. Mayor."
See Part #3
Continuing with Item #6.2 - "Committee Reports" - Planning and Economic Development Committee - Report 05-010, May 3, 2005 - Item #13
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