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November 23/05 Report – Part 2 of 8
(Continued from Part #1 that ended with Item 4.1 "Minutes of the meeting of [Special] City Council held on November 17, 2005" (this item was tabled, as report not available for distribution) )
5. Communications
(Each individual Item voted on separately)
Mayor DiIanni : "There are some items of Communication. And, the first, er, Members of Council, you have before you Communication Items 5.1 to 5.5."
5.2 Correspondence from Nancy Stableforth, Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada respecting Relocation of Hamilton Community Correctional Centre
Recommendation: For the consideration of Council
(See Motion below)
Mayor DiIanni : " Item 52 from Nancy Stableford, Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Services requires disposition by Council. What is your pleasure with regards to this item? Councillor Whitehead."
Whitehead : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Well, I'm a bit perplexed, quite frankly, with Correction Services Canada. They indicated that the majority of the individuals being housed at the Halfway House are from the City of Hamilton. And, that's the furthest from the truth."
"In fact, out of the 25 rooms, there are 7 - which represents 28% - 28, not 40%, not 50%, not 60%. But, 28% of the individuals in the Halfway House Corrections Canada. 7 of the 25 are from the City of Hamilton. The other 16 are from the broader catchment area. And, out of that 16, actual 7 are outside the catchment area."
"So, we need to deal with the facts. And, the issue is, is that we passed a resolution - I believe it was unanimous - at this Council to ask Corrections Canada to move the facility out of this community. We've had that facility for over 15 years. Just bringing some names so that you might - " (someone hit the 'council now in session bell' by mistake) "The - "
Mayor DiIanni : "Did somebody call a stewardess?" (hear giggles from Council and gallery) "Carry on."
Whitehead : "Mr. Mayor, we had Jacobson (sp?) - he was from Kingston area; John Addison (sp?) of North Bay. Richard Gardner (sp?) up by Orangeville. These were serious offenders that re-offended in this community that never, that were not from this community. And, I have real concerns about how it's being represented from Corrections Services Canada."
"I know it's going to be difficult for them to find other locations - no question. But, when you put this in context of the fact that on the Mountain the HPH [Hamilton Psychiatric Hospital] is expanding the Forensic Psychiatric Ward, which means that individuals coming out of the system will be regionally housed in the City of Hamilton. And then, there's an issue of when their mandate is up, where do they end up? And, in my discussions with the Police, they end up in this community. And, this community becomes even higher at risk."
"So, we need to have Corrections Canada take notice and move this correction facility out of the City of Hamilton. Thank you."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Councillor Jackson - I've got - sorry Councillor - I've got Merulla, Collins and I'm going to put myself on the list, as well. But, go ahead, Councillor Jackson."
Jackson : "Thanks, Mr. Mayor. It doesn't surprise me at all that Corrections Canada has come up with this divisive recommendation to City Council. I kind of predicted this over a year ago when a Task Force was set up, Mr. Mayor, though your good offices and Chair of the Police Board, Councillor Morelli, Chief Mullan, who had our best interests at heart in terms of our community interests and our citizens' interests, and with the Corrections Canada officials."
"And, Mr. Mayor, you have, along with Councillor Morelli represented our Council and our community working extremely hard and well to get the message across that anything outside of moving this completely out of the borders of the City of Hamilton would be unacceptable. And, I'm deeply disturbed to see this recommendation here, from Correctional Services Canada, which is basically saying: 'sure, we'll take the correctional facility out of the downtown. We'll take that Halfway House with dangerous offenders out of the downtown. But, we'll move it in some other part of the geographic area of the City of Hamilton.' "
"What a ludicrous and very tactical, clever manner, by Correctional Services Canada to pit one area - one region of the City against another; one area of its citizens against another; one Ward Councillor against another. I find it despicable. I find it very unfortunate. It's been a waste of almost a year's time."
"And Mr. Mayor, I can't loudly say, strongly enough, that our citizens are saying over the years, we have disproportionately taken enough dangerous offenders in this community, we have taken enough dangerous offenders in this community, Mr. Mayor, that our citizens overall are saying: 'enough is enough, we don't need any more innocent victims.' Like the 55-year-old woman, who was a part-time clerk at Jackson Square when a dangerous offender who had just been here less than 13 days, was out on parole and stabbed her viciously. Enough is enough."
"Other communities in the GTA [greater Toronto Area] who lead more pristine, progressive lives, that don't have these type of facilities. It's about time they took their share of providing their social concerns to our citizenry and those dangerous offenders and give Hamiltonians a break."
"So, Mr. Mayor, nothing short of removing this facility from the entire City of Hamilton borders will suffice for me. Thanks, Mr. Mayor."
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you Councillor. Councillor Merulla."
Merulla : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Firstly, let me start off by stating that Councillor Morelli is in Toronto, this evening, on Police Business and couldn't be in attendance here, today. So, he formally wanted to send his regrets."
"Secondly, as you know, Councillor Morelli has been working hard along side your efforts in dealing with this issue. And, it's unfortunate that the Federal Government doesn't see the need for the relocation of this facility outside of the City."
"Having said that, now the question becomes - because there's some discussion regarding if there will be a relocation, where would that relocation be."
"Well, I can assure you, that everyone around this table would suggest that their neighbourhood should not be the location, or the relocation of this particular facility."
"I'm prepared to put forward a Motion on behalf of the entire City, firstly, that it shouldn't be relocated; but, at the same rate, I want to focus in on my Ward in the east end, including Stoney Creek, that the east end just flatly rejects any relocation of . (couldn't make out next few words) "facility. And, that the facility should be outside of the City of Hamilton."
"So, at the appropriate time, I just want to reaffirm our original position and bring forward a Motion that we reject any notion that this should not be relocated outside of the City of Hamilton. Thank you, Mr. Mayor."
Mayor DiIanni : "Or, should be relocated outside the City of Hamilton. A couple of speakers and then I'll come back for some direction. Councillor Collins."
Collins : "Mr. Mayor, I agree with the statements of the previous speakers and I think we didn't want to end up in a situation, as Councillor Jackson had mentioned where we're pitting neighbourhood versus neighbourhood. And that's why our original Motion stated that it should be outside the City of Hamilton."
"I'm curious to know, though, through the discussions that have taken place to date, what the assumptions were in the criteria. Councillor Whitehead mentioned that the response was that, in fact, we're dealing with Hamiltonians, by and large who are now residing back in Hamilton at this facility. And, as I understand it, we have information that states otherwise."
"And so, not being involved first hand in discussions that have taken place to date, I'd like to know whether or not the City has received officially the assumptions and criteria that are used by Corrections Canada. And, second to that, Mr. Mayor, I'd like to know what the political response has been. I mean, I didn't expect anything more than what we received here, today, from the bureaucracy and the bureaucrats who deal with this issue. But, we do have federal representatives who represent the Government. And, I'd like to know, to date, what there response has been from those, and since Councillor Morelli's not here, I guess that question is pointed to you, Mr. Mayor, if you could - "
Mayor DiIanni : "I'm actually next on the list so - "
Collins : "Well, I would re - I would Second, then, the Motion to reiterate our original response to Corrections Canada ." (tape stopped, sorry) "
(Councillor Kelly takes Chair of Council, as Deputy Mayor, while Mayor DiIanni speaks to the issue)
Mayor DiIanni : (in progress after tape started rolling again - first reference is to Minister Tony Valeri's office, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons - being part of the Task Force) ". office has been part of the task force, that we've been participating in. And, he has, his office has consistently said that they will do what they can to champion our position. Our position will be their position. And, that has been repeatedly stated by the Minister's Office."
"Here's the issue, as I see it. And you know that I certainly supported and continue to support the notion of removing this halfway house from the City of Hamilton - because we've had it for 13 years. We've done our share. If one wanted to look at the whole issue of fairness, we've certainly done more than our share for other communities. And, even though it may be that Hamiltonians are some of the clients that are serviced by this halfway house, so are other people from other communities from far away, in some cases. And so, it wouldn't be totally unfair for other communities, now, to service Hamiltonians. If, you know, one were to look at the total fairness quotient."
"But, turn that around a second, if you will. And, I'm going to ask you to just look at it from the other way. We know that we've got a halfway house, where it's located now, that doesn't serve anyone. We've had some very nasty incidents. And, if it was a question of getting it out of Hamilton, or keeping it there and we had control over it, it wouldn't be there. It would be out of Hamilton altogether and let them figure out where it might need to go."
"But, that doesn't seem to be the response from Corrections Canada. And, we can reiterate our position - and we have done, several times. You know, my suspicion is that their response is their response."
"So, if we were to look at it from this perspective: how can we improve public safety. And, that's not for us to do. We have a role in it. But, that's really for Corrections Canada to do. And, can they come to the table with some formula for improving public safety? I don't know whether they can. But, can they come to the table with such a formula. And then, we can make an informed decision on whether we reiterate our position, or entertain whatever they might be able to say."
"So, consider that side of it. How can we improve public safety."
"The other side is, that we do have a Task Force that's made up of, not only Members of Council - there are a number of people from Council on that Task Force, but members of the community, as well - the various downtown BIAs, the Police, Councillor Morelli, as the Police Service's Chair, and others, as well."
"If we reiterated our position - and they haven't seen this letter yet - not officially, they haven't talked about it - can we give them a chance to consider our position and weigh in on this, as well. And, see what they have to say, as a Task Force, around this issue. So, before we sort of make a definitive statement to the Federal Government - let's make a definitive statement if people want. But, let's let the Task Force have a look at that, as well, and have them consider it. Because that Task Force, then, includes the Minister's Office, as well as all of those other stakeholders, and then come back to Council with their impressions and statements, as well."
"And, that may help inform us, as to their opinions. I can tell you that I have spoken to some of the stakeholders - the BIA specifically. And, they're certainly interested in moving forward with trying to improve public safety in whatever form that takes."
"So, I think we do owe it to them to have them consider this issue, as well. Anyway, those are my comments."
Kelly as Acting Chair and Deputy Mayor : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor, I'll ask you to take the Chair back and recognize Councillor Collins on your speakers list."
Mayor DiIanni re-Chaired : "Thank you. Councillor Collins."
Collins : "Mr. Mayor, I appreciate that response. And, I really think we need to be firm with the whole issue of knowing what the Government's position is. So, it's great for the Members to say one thing and the bureaucracy to say another." (hear a glass clink) "I think we want to know, going into the next Federal election, which is just around the corner, where, in fact, the Government stands."
"Are they then saying outright 'no' that they're not willing to relocate it outside of Hamilton - they haven't said that in the letter. They've left the door open to say, we're willing to relocate it within the municipality. But, they haven't said 'no, we're not willing to relocate it outside the municipality.' "
"And I'd like them to be on record and I'd like to get that over the next several weeks. And so, if that's something that needs to go through the committee, that's fine. If that's something your office can facilitate, then that's fine. But, I think now's the time, we have some leverage in light of the fact that the election is just around the corner. And, unfortunately that, often times, with government seems to be when decisions are made."
Mayor DiIanni : "And, you know, this is a good time. So, I think we will have their attention. But, I appreciate the fact that maybe the committee needs to consider this, as well."
"Councillor Merulla and then Councillor Ferguson."
Merulla : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just, with respect to, I guess, the argument presented by some of the Members of Parliament. This is a classic example of the tail wagging the dog. The bureaucracy is dumping this on this community. The Members of Government - including the Minister of this area is suggesting that they're going to consider our request. Who's really in charge? I'm a little confused by that type of argument - not only confused, but almost insulted by it. At the end of the day, the Government decides and directs the bureaucracy, unless we're in a situation that this city saw 5 or 6 years ago."
"But, that aside, so through you, or to you, I guess, Mr. Mayor, I'm not quite - I don't understand that argument at all. If the Minister wants it to be moved, the Government can move it - unless the bureaucracy is over-ruling the governing party. I'm very confused by that argument and I think we need some clarification on that."
Mayor DiIanni : "Okay. Councillor Ferguson."
Ferguson : "Mr. Mayor, if we follow your idea, what would the turnaround time be?"
Mayor DiIanni : "Well, we'd need to call a committee meeting [Task Force] together as soon as possible. So, certainly within the next 2 weeks. And, that certainly would be within the framework of the general election - if that's what people are looking at."
Ferguson : "I would support that because it would give more of a broad-based approach to it. I would suggest it would augment Council's position. So, I would support that."
Mayor DiIanni : "I think there are 2 issues here: 1) is to take a position again, as Council - if people want to do that, I'd certainly recognize; and the 2) then, would be a referral Motion which would include Council's position to the Task Force." (hear someone say something off microphone)
"All right. So, on that for comment, first of all."
Whitehead : "Well, and I don't want to lose the context that there's over 3,000 - 3,000 people on probation or released on parole in this community, over and above the Halfway House. I don't want to lose site of the fact that we have individuals that are being released from their mandated program at the Forensic Psychiatric Centre that are a risk. This community's at risk every time they dump these people in this community who are not from this community."
"So, my point is from a comprehensive look - and let's make it clear, that there's, this is a Halfway House with Corrections Canada. But, we have over a 100 beds in this community of which 25 of them are beds that could be said as High Risk Beds, because there's only 3 of these type of facilities in all of Ontario - and that's one in Kingston; one in Toronto; and one in Hamilton."
"So, we need to send a very strong message that we've done our part. We've served society. It's time that somebody else does. Thank you."
Mayor DiIanni : "Okay. Thank you. Councillor Bratina."
Bratina : "Mr. Mayor, I would hope that Council would weigh your words because I think you make a very good point about public safety. Because - and I agree with, I think we all feel the same way about this issue."
"But, I want to remind everybody, that everyday that this goes on - right across the street from the [Hamilton Public] Library, Jackson Square, Copps Coliseum, this facility continues. And, this, if this is going to drag out simply because of the demands that we make, then I don't believe it will reflect the issues of public safety that the Mayor has brought forward."
"So, I just want to add that into the conversation. Thanks."
Mayor DiIanni : "And, I can tell you, Members of Council - and we're going to try to expedite this - that if we get into a Mexican Stand-off, where we say go and they say stay, we're not going to be focusing on the improvement of public safety."
"We all know where we want to go. But, we also owe it: a) to our staff at the Library who have sent me many e-mails indicating their great concerns; and b) to the general population of Hamilton that feels - and rightly so - threatened by some of the activities in the past."
"So, I see a 2-track process. And, I think we need to be firm and we need to make the statement again, hopefully with the stakeholder group to reinforce that. But then, look at also the options around the improvement of public safety that maybe offered. And, I think that there are some options there that certainly are deserving of a closer look."
"All right. Anyway, that's the comment."
MOTION for Council's response in considering above Correspondence item 5.2
- for Council to reaffirm its original position with the fact that the Halfway House should be removed from the City of Hamilton
- that Council Correspondence Item 5.2 be referred to staff to negotiate discussions with the Task Force, to negotiate with Correctional Service Canada to improve and address current concerns of public safety
(Note: above Motion points are paraphrased by transcriber. Please see minutes on City website for exact wording)
(Merulla / Collins - CARRIED)
Mayor DiIanni : "The first Motion, then, by Councillor Merulla."
Merulla : "Moved by myself; Seconded by Councillor Collins that we: a) reaffirm our original position with respect to the fact that this location is not desired in the City of Hamilton; and b) with respect to your direction - if you want to include it on this Motion, or do you want to bring it forward yourself?"
Mayor DiIanni : "Ya, can we include it on this Motion?"
Merulla : "Sure - "
Mayor DiIanni : " - So that we refer that - "
Merulla : "That, that be referred to staff to negotiate discussions with - "
Mayor DiIanni : " - the Task Force, ya."
Merulla : " - Task Force, to negotiate with Corrections Canada to improve the present public safety concerns.
Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Questions or comments on that - Councillor Whitehead."
Whitehead : "Just one, is that I don't want to lose site - and I don't know if on the High Risk Offenders Committee if there is Provincial representation there, in respect to what is happening on the issues that I've already identified."
"But, I think we need to understand that, again - I really want to put this emphasis - that it's not just the halfway house. It's important, it's a big issue in this community. But, we've got a regional centre for psychiatric - forensic psychiatry. And, we have a lot of high risk issues and concerns as a community."
"All I'm saying is that there's no other community in this Province that has this make up. And, we need to bring that into context in that discussion."
Mayor DiIanni : "We have often talked about the Provincial side. I don't think have actually had any representation. But, if staff can take make note of that - or the Clerk's Office can make note of that - we'll make sure that we include them at the next meeting. That's a ver good point."
"Councillor Samson."
Samson : "Your Worship, would this come back to the next meeting? It's the only meeting that we have in December and we won't be meeting again until well into the new year."
Mayor DiIanni : "We'll do our best. I think that - I mean, timing is of the essence."
"Mr. Ferguson."
Ferguson : "With respect to item b) of the Motion, we've got to be real clear that that's time sensitive."
Mayor DiIanni : "We'll do our best given the time of the year that we're in; we'll do our best to - I mean, there's certainly strong community will to deal with this. And, there's certainly Council will to deal with this, as well."
"And Corrections Canada wants to get on with it, also - albeit from a slightly different angle."
"So, we've got the Motion - double-sided Motion: 1) the reaffirmation; and 2 nd the referral. All in favour of that?" (hear Councillors say carried) "That's carried."
See Part #3
continuing with Item #5 - "Communications"
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