Council

Council

info@hamiltoncatch.org

June 14, 2006 Report – Lister Block Excerpt Part 1 of 5
7:00 pm (actual start at 7:11 pm)
Location: Hamilton City Hall, Council Chambers
(In Camera - no in camera session)
(adjourned @ 10:05 pm)

(LISTER BLOCK EXCERPT from discussion on Committee Reports Item 6.9 - "Special Committee of the Whole, " Report 06-013, June 12, 2006 )

Members of Council :

Mayor Larry DiIANNI (present) in 7:11 pm
Ward # 1 Brian M cHATTIE (present) in 7:06 pm , out 8:34 pm ; in 8:35 pm , out 9:55 pm ; in 9:58 pm
Ward # 2 Bob BRATINA (present) in 7:05 pm , out 8:05 pm ; in 8:07 pm , out 9:20 pm ; in 9:25 pm , out 9:34 pm ; in 9:35 pm
Ward # 3 Bernie MORELLI (present) in 7:07 pm , out 9:43 pm ; in 9:47 pm , out 9:50 pm ; in 9:54 pm
Ward # 4 Sam MERULLA (present) in 7:03 pm , out 8:00 pm ; in 8:15 pm , out 9:19 pm ; in 9:25 pm , out 9:43 pm ; in 9:54 pm
Ward # 5 Chad COLLINS (present) in 7:03 pm , out 7:16 pm ; in 7:18 pm , out 7:56 pm ; in 7:58 pm , out 8:34 pm ; in 8:40 pm
Ward # 6 Tom JACKSON (present) in 7:05 pm
Ward # 7 Bill KELLY (present) in 7:05 pm
Ward # 8 Terry WHITEHEAD (present) in 7:10 pm , out 8:07 pm ; in 8:20 pm , out 9:19 pm ; in 9:25 pm
Ward # 9 Phil BRUCKLER (present) in 7:05 pm
Ward #10 Maria PEARSON (present) in 7:03 pm , out 8:06 ; in 8:07 pm
Ward #11 David L. MITCHELL (present) in 7:06 pm
Ward #12 Murray FERGUSON (absent - illness)
Ward #13 Art SAMSON (present) in 7:06 pm
Ward #14 Dave BRADEN (present) in 7:06 pm , out 9:18 pm ; in 9:24 pm , out 9:30 pm ; in 9:34 pm , out 9:45 pm ; in 9:48 pm
Ward #15 Margaret McCARTHY (present) in 7:07 pm , out 8:34 pm ; in 8:39 pm, out 9:19 pm ; in 9:25 pm

Members of Staff

Peter Barkwell - City Solicitor
Rose Caterini - Deputy Clerk/Manager of Legislative Services & Records
Kevin Christenson - City Clerk
Lee Ann Coveyduck - General Manager, Planning and Development
Catherine Graham - General Manager, Human Resources
Don Hull - Director of Transit
Mario Joannette - Executive Assistant to the Mayor
Jim Kay - General Manager, Emergency Services / Fire Chief
Mike Kirkopoulos - Communications & Media Relations - Office of the Mayor
Tim McCabe - Director of Development and Real Estate
Glen Peace - City Manager
Joe-Anne Priel - General Manager, Public Health and Community Services
Joe Rinaldo - General Manager, Finance and Corporate Services
Irene Sturgeon - Legislative Assistant, City Clerk's Office
Tony Tollis - Director, Budgets & Finance - Corporate Services

Members of the Media present :

Cable 14
Doug Cameron - K-Lite FM
Andrew Dreschel - Hamilton Spectator
Ken Mann - CHML
Nicole MacIntyre - Hamilton Spectator
CH TV
Kevin Werner - Brabant Newspapers

(Please note : As discussed under the Agenda, Council will first deal with Motions, Item 7.3 concerning Heritage Greene; and then Committee Report Item 6.9 Special Committee of the Whole concerning the Lister Block - as many in the gallery were attending to hear the outcome of decisions on those two items.)

6.9 Special Committee of the Whole Report 06-013, June 12, 2006 (to be distributed)
(http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/468FF15F-5107-472B-
ACFE-6100D5B67680/0/Jun12REPORT06013.pdf )
(Samson / Pearson - CARRIED as Amended)

(NOTE : Please check City website for correct official Movers and Seconders. Transcriber of this record may have some discrepancy in those listed as heard. Sorry about that.)

Mayor DiIanni : "And, we will absolutely deal with the substance of those reports. I'm hearing two or three people clink their glass. Councillor, go ahead."

INFORMATION SECTION - Item (e) of Report

"Heritage Permit Application (HP2006-017) Under Part IV of the Ontario Heritage Act to Demolish a Designated Property at 28-44 James Street North (Lister Block) Hamilton (PED06169) (Ward 2) "

" (a) That Heritage Permit (HP2006-017) be approved for the demolition of the designated property at 28-44 James Street North (Lister Block), Hamilton, subject to the following conditions:

(i) That prior to the issuance of a demolition permit for the Lister Block at 28-44 James Street North, and prior to any other demolition activity, that the applicant apply for and receive all necessary approvals under the Planning Act and the Building Code Act and any other applicable By-laws of the City of Hamilton related to the proposed construction and development activities.

(ii) That the applicant arrange for the retrieval of key examples of building remnants and features including but not restricted to terra cotta units, copper spandrels, designated store front features and designated arcade features sufficient to satisfy the requirements of the future display set out in Condition (a)(iii) below; all to the satisfaction and approval of the Director of Development and Real Estate in consultation with the Hamilton LACAC (Municipal Heritage Committee).

(iii) That all retrieved building remnants and features be appropriately stored by the applicant with quality representatives of key remnants and features being subsequently incorporated into a commemorative or interpretive display to be located within a publicly accessible portion of the new replacement structure at 28-44 James Street North, all subject to the approval of the Director of Development and Real Estate in consultation with the Hamilton LACAC (Municipal Heritage Committee).

(iv) That the applicant submit plans and drawings of all elevations of the replacement structure including all façade materials to be approved by the Director of Development and Real Estate.

(b) That staff be directed to prepare any necessary by-laws under Subsection 34.3(1) of the Ontario Heritage Act to repeal the designating By-law subsequent to building demolition.

(c) That Council be advised that the lease commencement date of September 1, 2007 , and lease termination date of August 31, 2022 , as adopted in

Item 4 (a)(i) of the Council Minutes of May 9, 2005 , and recommended in Report PD05095/FCS05052/CM05018, be amended to a commencement date of October 1, 2008 , and termination date of September 30, 2023 , respectively.

(d) That Council be advised that the lease commencement date of September 1, 2007, and lease termination date of August 31, 2022, as adopted in Item 4 (a)(iii) of the Council Minutes of May 9th, 2005, and recommended in Report PD05095/FCS05052/CM05018, be amended to a commencement date of October 1, 2008, and termination date of September 30, 2023, respectively.

(e) That Council be advised that the final date for entering into a signed Lease Agreement by the Landlord and Tenant of May 31, 2005, as adopted in Item 4(a)VI(5) of the Council Minutes of May 9, 2005 and recommended in Report PD05095/FCS05052/CM05018, be amended to a signed lease agreement date of September 15, 2006. "

(Whitehead moved staff recommendation - Information Section Item (e))

MOTION TO LIFT INFORMATION ITEM (e) TO MAIN REPORT
(McHattie / Pearson - CARRIED)

AMENDMENT PUT to ADD CONDITION to part (a) : That the following recommendation be added to part (a) " That this consent to demolish and to repeal the designation as set out above not commence or be effective until 60 days from the date of this Council decision in order to allow further opportunity for the proponents and the Ministry of Culture to further review heritage matters related to this development. "
(Merulla / Whitehead - Amendment CARRIED)

STANDING RECORDED VOTE ON THE MAIN MOTION:

In Favour (11) : Mayor DiIanni, Councillors Bruckler, Collins, Jackson, Kelly, Merulla, Morelli, Mitchell, Pearson, Samson, Whitehea

Against (4) : Councillors Braden, Bratina, McCarthy, McHattie

CARRIED

==================

Whitehead : "Mr. Mayor, to get this on the table, I'd Move the Staff recommendation."

Mayor DiIanni : "Okay, we'll deal with that - and I know that Councillor McHattie also has some issues that he wants to get on the table. And, we will, we will have a full discussion on all of that."

"I just want to maybe - maybe this'll save a little bit of time; I don't know. But, sort of brief you on a conversation I just had. When you were meeting downstairs and I wasn't there, a conversation that I had with the [ Ontario ] Minister of Culture [ The Honourable Caroline Di Cocco ], as well as Mr. Mancinelli, was a conference call. People from the Minister's Office, Minister Bountrogianni, [ Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Responsible for Democratic Renewal ] MPP Jennifer Mossop. And, some representatives, even, from the Premier's Office."

"So, let me just tell you about what the conversation was all about. And, that might inform some of the decision-making around the table, as well."

"But, just to get the item on the agenda, Mr. Clerk, I think - do I need to get the Motion on the table, first, so that people understand what it is we're talking about."

Kevin Christenson - City Clerk : "Through you, Mr. Mayor. There's two Motions within the Information Section of the Committee of the Whole."

"As you know, the Committee of the Whole didn't deal with the matter on Monday night. We nee a Motion to Move one of those recommendations - either the staff, or LACAC recommendation, or what took place - out on the table for Council to debate."

MOTION TO LIFT INFORMATION ITEM (e) TO MAIN REPORT
(McHattie / Pearson - CARRIED)

Mayor DiIanni : "And, you've moved the Staff recommendation. Seconded by Councillor Pearson. All in favour of that - oh, no, no, no" (hear giggles from Council and gallery) "we're not Moving the recommendation. We're going to have discussion before we -" (hear City Clerk say something off microphone) "We simply putting it on the table -"

Kevin Christenson - City Clerk : (hear City Clerk start speaking off microphone) " . that it be Moved to the - " (couldn't hear all of what Mr. Christenson was saying as he and Mayor were speaking at the same time)

Mayor DiIanni : " - ya - we're not Moving approval, we're Moving that we talk about it"

Kevin Christenson - City Clerk : " - forward to be debated?"

Mayor DiIanni : "All in favour of placing it before us?" (hear councillors say carried) "That's carried."

"Okay, so let me tell you about the conversation I had for the last hour with the Minister and Mr. Mancinelli, as well as the other Members that I just talked about."

"The issue, quite clearly, here, is one of Moving this community forward - in one way or the other. And, I think that everybody that spoke the other night certainly talked about two ways of doing that: one that focuses on simply getting on with the job and dealing with a demolition permit; and, the other talked about the full restoration of the existing building."

"And, the Minister fully understands both sides of that coin - and points out that, in fact, it's the same coin. And, the coin is the Downtown of Hamilton. And, wants to be as responsive as possible to certainly our Downtown redevelopment. But also, has an obligation and a duty to respond to legitimate heritage issues that are expressed across the Province - including our city. And, in fact, are expressed around significant buildings in communities, as well."

"And, what the Minister was hoping for, was some opportunity to work with all the stakeholders so that we can look at finding the right solution for this city."

"And so, what we agreed to - and, Mr. Mancinelli agreed to, the Minister agreed to and I would like to present to see if there's some agreement here - is that, as we proceed with the demolition permit - because I think it's important from my perspective. And, some of you will, obviously, want to talk about this and offer a different perspective. But, I think it's important from my perspective that we move forward with this particular job."

"But, as we move forward with a demolition permit, it - we need to give the Ministry an opportunity - and she's suggesting a 60 day period - for her to bring together proponents on all sides of this - the heritage side, as well as the development side to see, to further explore opportunities that would safeguard heritage, as well as get this going."

"So, my suggestion - and she agreed with this, as did Mr. Mancinelli, and as did the Minister, as well as MPP Mossop - that demolition would not, would not commence or be effective until 60 days from this date [i.e. 60 days from June 14, 2006] And, that would allow the Ministry to pull together a group to explore the various aspects of this and make the best possible decision - or, understand what the best possible decision for this Council is."

"So, I offer that to you as a discussion that we had. And, someone needs to, obviously, Move that. And, we need to see if there's some will around that. And, " (hear a glass clink) "I don't want to short-circuit any debate whatsoever. But, that conversation just happened, as I said, from 6:00pm to about five to seven this evening. So are there some questions on that and then we'll certainly have ." (couldn't understand the Mayor's next word, sorry) "Councillor Merulla."

Merulla : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I believe I do have a Motion drafted. And, it's Moved by myself and Seconded by Councillor Whitehead that an additional condition be added to recommendation (a) this consent to demolish and to repeal the designation, as set out above, not commence or be effective until 60 days from the date of this Council decision in order to allow further opportunities for the proponents and the Ministry of Culture to further review heritage matters related to this development."

Mayor DiIanni : "I accept that as an Amendment to the Motion. And, I open it up, obviously, to the floor for discussion. Councillor McHattie."

DISCUSSION ON THE AMENDMENT

McHattie : "Mr. Mayor, just seeking clarification on that discussion and the content of the Motion."

"Just trying to understand the discussion you were in, and the agreement that came out, as to why we need to - are we holding the demolition permit in abeyance for the 60 days. And - obviously, the Province can do whatever they want, because it's their legislation. So that's, that's - was there a discussion about denying the demolition permit - and, of course, reconsidering it, in the near future, as those discussions come to an end?"

Mayor DiIanni : "There'll - the discussion was fairly free-wheeling. And, there were many participants in the discussion. But, everybody agreed that the best option was to give to - for the City to clearly set its preferred direction - and, obviously, Council has to decide that - to give the Province an opportunity to do all of the appropriate reviews; to bring people to the table without an air of confrontation - but, to bring people to the table with a sincere effort to explore all aspects and decide what it needed to do in order to help this city move forward."

"So, that was the spirit of the discussions that we had."

McHattie : "And, the Heritage Impact Assessment that we have from LIUNA; all the comments from, you know, Municipal Heritage staff; LACAC; and the three peer reviewers that we hired to look at it - saying it's inadequate; it's incomplete; it needs some more work. What was the nature of the discussion on that point."

Mayor DiIanni : "The Minister quoted chapter and verse - did you talk to her?" (hear giggles from Council and gallery)

McHattie : "No, she's her own woman - "

Mayor DiIanni : " - She quoted chapter and verse and alluded to a number of those documents - and very, very aware of the criticisms heard, as well, a little bit on the other side and wants, therefore, an opportunity to bring people together to fully understand the merits of both of those perspectives. So, my guess is that, that will be looked at."

McHattie : "Okay. And, towards the end of that 60 days, just help me out, what happens. See, I guess, the decision we make tonight - perhaps the Demolition Permit will be approved. So, that sits there. And, towards the end of the 60 days we know whether we've got some agreement, or not. And, the Province, I guess, at that point, decides what they want to do."

Mayor DiIanni : "We really, obviously, didn't talk about that, because those discussions need to happen. But, I can certainly see it playing through. And, I think the Ministry - that has a legitimate role, here - will have a very clear understanding of what the issues are and what the importance for - of this project to the City might be, as well as any of the expert reports or individuals that might want to give information, on one side or the other."

"I think that will be fully explored. And, we pressed, and the Minister agreed that we're not to wait, you know, until the 49 th day to get this going. This is going to happen. She's going to convene people right away to give us ample opportunity."

McHattie : "Thanks." (hear a glass clink)

Mayor DiIanni : "Councillor McCarthy."

REQUEST TO MOVE A MOTION - that Request for Proposals be sent out
(McCarthy /

McCarthy : "Thank you, Mr. Mayor, through you to Council. The heritage aspect is one component of this proposal. But, of primary concern to me is the finances and the financial impact on the taxpayer. So, I would like to Move a Motion that - and I'd like to speak to that Motion - on the financing component. And, ask for a Request for Proposals be sent out" (hear a glass clink) "In - at the very, very outside, when you factor everything in, we have the ability to save $10 million over 15 years. And, I'll go through those figures with you. And, I'll go through the real estate figures that we've got currently being leased out in the malls and other properties in the Downtown core."

"So, I - at the - at whatever time you deem reasonable, I would like to present ." (tape stopped, sorry)

Mayor DiIanni : (started talking before I could turn over tape and start recording again, sorry) ". to Move a reconsideration. And, if that happens, obviously, it'll - and it gets two thirds approval " (hear a glass clink) "we will deal with that. In the absence of that, it's a moot point - "

McCarthy : " - I'm not quite so sure it's a moot point, because the features of the original proposal have changed significantly. Now we're not looking at a remodelling, we're looking at a tearing down and a rebuilding. And, unless I'm mistaken, the original contract asked for 120,000 square feet to be built. Isn't this down to a 100,000 square feet, now?"

Mayor DiIanni : "Well, let me just seek the Clerk's advice on that, and maybe staff's advice. The - what, what - nothing has changed about what we will - what we have asked for in the lease. Nothing has changed about that. We asked for a certain square footage; we're getting a certain square footage. Nothing has changed in terms of the two options that were presented: one, which was a replication; and, one which was a reconstruction - at least, as restoration."

"So, I don't believe that anything has changed materially to make this a new deal. But, I will seek the advice of staff on that."

Tim McCabe - Director of Development and Real Estate : "Mr. Mayor, that's correct, the 120,000 square feet was a concept at the beginning. The 120 th -" (hear some noises from some in gallery) " - The 120,000 square foot building is not part of Council's conditions. It's not part of the terms of the lease."

"The only thing that has changed was - is the commencement date of the lease. And, that's a normal negotiation issue where, because of the heritage delays and receiving the Heritage Impact Assessment, that we need Council to extend the commencement date of the lease. The balance of the terms and the square footage, the lease rates and the other conditions remain exactly the same."

Mayor DiIanni : I'm afraid your Motion is out of order at this point."

McCarthy : "The taxpayers are out of luck."

Mayor DiIanni : "Councillor Merulla - "

McCarthy : " - I haven't finished yet - "

Mayor DiIanni : "Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead."

McCarthy : "A question then, through you, at the end of 60 days, if, in fact, a demolition permit is not granted, would my Motion then be in order?"

Mayor DiIanni : "I suspect if a demolition permit is not granted, then we're back to square one. We don't have a building; therefore, we don't have a lease."

McCarthy : "And, it's - "

Mayor DiIanni : " - ya - "

McCarthy : "And, it's still in order? Thank you."

Mayor DiIanni : "Okay? Councillor Merulla."

Merulla : "Councillor McCarthy's simply trying to find the financial deal to fight on behalf of the constituents. And, that we have to respect."

"Having said that, throughout this entire process, I think this will give an opportunity for calmer heads to prevail. And, I hope that everyone will be part of the process - will truly be part of the process in order to find a solution that's in the best interest of not only the [Downtown] Core, but the City. And, I look forward to this process coming to fruition so that we can deal with the facts and not the fiction of the issue."

"And, I'm very pleased that we're dealing with this matter in an open and transparent process with a third party - " (hear noises from gallery) "60 days - "

Mayor DiIanni : " - Please, ladies and gentlemen. Go ahead, Councillor."

Merulla : "Thank you. Just, with respect to the fact that it has been very - it's been a 13-month process. I'm not sure where some people were in the last 13 months. But, at the end of the day, we have this Motion before us, after 13 months, that it was passed. And, we went through an entire public consultation. And now, we're actually looking for a third party involvement."

"The fact that there is laugher in the audience with respect to the statement of very open transparency, is exactly what I'm trying to emphasize, is that we all need to come to the table with integrity and honesty throughout the process and not prejudge the process. Thank you, Mr. Mayor."

Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you. Councillor Bratina."

Bratina : "Mr. Mayor, it's obvious from your transcription of whatever went on at that meeting that the Minister is not convinced that the demolition is necessary. So, why isn't it - "

Mayor DiIanni : " - I wouldn't say that, that's true."

Bratina : "It's obvious from the information we received that the Minister is not convinced that the demolition is necessary - please let me finish. And, it - that's seems to me that it's incumbent upon the proponent to prove that the building needs to be demolished."

"The Minister's not going to give 60 days for those who don't want to see the building demolished to prov - we have a demolition process before us. And, so, the message that "I'm taking from that - and I might be wrong - is that the proponent has to prove that the building needs to be demolished before we approve the permit."

"So, why are a - based on what you've said, we should defer this matter for 60 days. Thank you."

Mayor DiIanni : "The Minister made it very clear that all options will be explored including the demolition option. But she wants, obviously, an opportunity to consider all of the heritage issues and so consequently agree that this Motion should come before our Council."

Bratina : "I don't want to belabour it, Mr. Mayor, but why are we going to approve the demolition and then see whether or not we shouldn't demolish. Why shouldn't we just put aside the demolition permit until it can be proven that it's - "

Mayor DiIanni : "Well, Councillor, we have a, we have a - " (hear applause from some in gallery) "We have a Motion on the table. And, we will take a vote on that Motion. If it loses, then, you're more than welcome to offer an alternative." (hear a glass clink)

Mayor /DiIanni : "Councillor Morelli"

Morelli : "Mr. Chairman, I certainly - you know - it was going to be in my comments, tonight, making very clear that I respect the position of both sides, quite frankly. And, what I take from this recent move is very simply this: the spirit of it is that we're trying to get somewhere and we're trying to get together with consideration for both sides."

"And, quite frankly, if you really want to dig in tonight, it'll pass as I speculate, that it be demolished. And, quite frankly" (hear applause from some in gallery) " - quite frankly, this is an attempt to - because I think there are some frustrations in terms of people want to be considerate of both sides. But, quite frankly, us moving to demolish it with a 60-day proviso, I certainly don't expect that on the 60 th day if negotiations are at a standstill, that there'll be a ball swinging into the building."

"I think that there, you know, I think that this is an opportunity for the various partners to come to the table and try to seek a solution that takes into consideration everybody's needs and interests. And, quite frankly, I think that's a terrific spirit, around this table. And, I think that given that the owners of the building are prepared to do that. And, certainly, the Minister, and everyone involved, who's arrived at that situation - I think that spirit is wonderful."

"So, I have no difficulty with the Motion that's being put forward."

Mayor DiIanni : "Councillor Kelly."

Kelly : "Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, I agree with Bernie. I guess an awful lot of us - I have some speaking notes, here. And, I'll try to be brief and edit these. But, I think I've been quite clear on where I've wanted to see this project go. But, I wanted to congratulate you and the proponents and the Minister for trying to find a solution to this."

"And, I think at the end - and I think we talked about this the other day during Committee of the Whole - the end game, here, is what we want to do with, you know - what we think is best for the City of Hamilton."

"And I, quite frankly, think that the proposal that was before us is in the best interest of the City to try to move the Downtown forward and to try to rejuvenate."

"But, I appreciate the efforts that you have made and the Minister, and the proponents have made to try to find this - and I got from your comments that it's not so much whether to demolish or not, because I think, clearly, that will be the decision we make around here in just a couple of minutes. But, there could be negotiation about methodology; about what's going to be done; about the sorts of things that are within the building and those - that can all come together. And, there may well be some changes as we go through that. And, I want to thank the Minister and yourselves for trying to eliminate some of the polarity that was involved in this. And, I think we saw that the other day during the meetings that you're never going to get unanimity in this. We're not going to get everybody to say, well great - that's the solution, we're all happy, now. That stuff's not going to happen."

"But, we need to move this city forward. It's not 1964, anymore; it's 2006. This, as we've talked about, has been the flash point for Downtown redevelopment. And I, for one, as a citizen and as a City Councillor, am very happy to see somebody move forward - a citizen of this community - to say here's my money; here's my project; here's my idea. I'm going to fix the Downtown and this what we need to do."

"So, I'm happy to move this forward. And, I'll be supporting the Motion, and looking forward to the negotiations. Thank you, very much, Mr. Mayor."

Mayor DiIanni : "Thank you, Councillor." (hear applause from some in gallery) "Hold it, hold it. Order, please. Order. I asked them to behave; So, I'm going to ask you to behave, too. Councillor Braden." (hear someone say something off microphone) "Yes - on a point of order."

Jackson : "Mr. Mayor, on a point of order. Are we, then, into the full debate of the Motion before us. Or, are we debating this 60-day amendment? Could I just have that clarified, please."

Mayor DiIanni : "Well, what we're doing right now, is debating the 60-day amendment. And, of course, people are broadening it to debate. So - " (hear someone say something off microphone) "ya, well, you're more than welcome to add your name to the list. I will do so. Councillor Braden" (again, hear someone say something off microphone) "Well, you know - on the same point, Councillor Collins."

Collins : "Mr. Mayor, my question was going to be the same - along the same lines and that is: are we going to debate this again in 60 days - even if the Minister takes no action on it."

Mayor DiIanni : "I'm hoping not. But, obviously, I'm at your disposal. I don't' want to curtail people from making points that they want to make." (hear someone say something off microphone)

Collins : "No, but I meant voting on the demolition permit, tonight. But, again, if the Minister takes no action, in regards to our Motion, are we back before Council - "

Mayor DiIanni : " - I don't think so."

Collins : " - Okay. Thank you."

Mayor DiIanni : "Councillor Braden."

See Part #2
Continuing with Committee Report Item 6.9 - "Special Committee of the Whole," Report 06-013, June 12, 2006