August 11, 2004 Report – Part 3
9:30 am (9:37 am)

(Continued from Part 2 that ended at Item "7.6 2005 Budget Schedule (City Wide)")

8. DISCUSSION ITEMS

8.1 Request for Acceptance of International Waste from John C. Munro Hamilton International Airport to the Glanbrook Landfill (PW04093)
(This item was Tabled)

8.2 Outdoor Boulevard Café - 229 Locke Street South (PW04092) ( Ward 1)
Moved by McHattie; seconded by Ferguson - CARRIED

8.3 Rymal Road Planning Area ("ROPA 9" Lands) Master Plan Class Environmental Assessment (PW04094) (Ward 11)
Moved by Mitchell; seconded by Ferguson - CARRIED

Braden

• Councillor Braden asked if the funding for this Master Plan Class Environmental Assessment would be coming from development charges

Staff (not sure who)

• member of staff noted that this would be paid through development charges fund

8.4 Designated Route Numbering System (PW04095) (City Wide)
Moved by Whitehead; seconded by Collins - CARRIED

• Councillor Ferguson wanted to know if the numbering system was for the roads themselves and not addresses along the roads

Ed Switenky - (Manager, Traffic Engineering & Operations)

• Ed Switenky indicated that there would be no changes in street names or addresses as a result of this designation.
• It was only a route marker
• Garner Road would remain Garner Road; Rymal would remain Rymal Road

• Councillor Braden asked about the cost and was concerned that re-numbering routes would cost a fortune and was there going to be any provincial funding for this

Joe Rinaldo - (General Manager, Finance and Corporate Services)

• Joe Rinaldo indicated that there were no provincial transfer funds for this

Ed Switenky - (Manager, Traffic Engineering & Operations)

• noted that it was important to clearly mark routes in and around Hamilton with a continuous number for tourism in Hamilton

Braden

• Councillor Braden noted that if you change "Regional Road" 97 in Flamborough to Hamilton Road or Route 97, there will be complaints.
• Didn't want to mix regional signage with Hamilton signs
• And if it doesn't really need to be done, lets not do it and save money

Whitehead

• Councillor Whitehead expressed that we are trying to make it easier for tourists when they come to this town
• Right now, tourists are completely lost with the current mapping system
• We want to encourage more tourists to come to Hamilton and we want it to be a good experience for them

Pearson

• Councillor Pearson concurred with Councillor Whitehead's remarks and that it was good to have simply one number system
• Councillor Pearson did suggest that there might be a friendly suggestion that instead of the name "Hamilton" on these new route signs, that rather the Hamilton Logo be incorporated

Mitchell

• Councillor Mitchell said that he would rather see the Hamilton crest rather than the word Hamilton
• As an example, Mitchell said that "Regional Road 56 has been there a long time"

Ed Switenky - (Manager, Traffic Engineering & Operations)

• Ed Switenky said that whatever Council wanted, staff will do

Councillor Pearson moved to use the crest; seconded by Councillor Mitchell

Bruckler

• Councillor Bruckler asked if something couldn't just be stuck over the current sign to show the route marker

Ed Switenky - (Manager, Traffic Engineering & Operations)

• Ed Switenky noted that staff have already looked at that suggestion, but a lot of the signs are rusted; cheaper to go and make the new signs

Item was moved by Pearson; seconded by Whitehead and was CARRIED with Pearson's suggestion that the crest be used on the routing signs

8.5 Municipal Act Project - Municipal Distribution Water Main on White Church Road from Highway No. 6 to approximately 250 metres westerly in Mount Hope (Ward 11) (PW04084/FCS04102)
Moved by Mitchell; seconded by Pearson - CARRIED

8.6 Bulk Collection Status Report - June 2004 (PW04097) (City Wide)
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
committee-of-the-whole/2004/Aug11/PW04097.pdf)
(Peason / Ferguson - CARRIED)

Bruckler

• Councillor Bruckler was glad to see the measures in this report. One reason being that it allowed residents to do bulk drop off at the transfer stations for 2 weeks after the scheduled bulk pick up
• Also felt that residents would be more encouraged to drop off their own bulk waste at the transit stations if there were no cost

Blair Smith (Manager, Collections - Waste Management Division)

• Blair Smith indicated that during bulk collection days, collection vehicles are waiting in line at transfer stations to discard load for up to 2 hours.
• This is why staff suggests not to make it a free tipping fee

• can put out 8 items for pick up and after that bring it to the transfer station yourself

Blair Smith (Manager, Collections - Waste Management Division)

• if the City didn't charge anything, that would be a pretty significant impact.
• The cost of $7.50 per vehicle tipping is a pretty fair deal considering costs are prorated after the first 150kg of items dropped off

Collins

• Councillor Collins had some concerns about the mid-year (June) pick-up

McCarthy (as acting Chair)

• Councillor McCarthy noted that she couldn't believe the amount of bulk items put out at that time, that it was extensive

Blair Smith (Manager, Collections - Waste Management Division)

• Blair Smith noted that students are about 5 - 8 % that live in the McMaster area but put out a substantial amount of bulk in that area - with a lot of it being unacceptable material

Collins

• went over how things transpired during the June collection, noting that the City had advertised an 8-item limit, but that it wasn't enforced. He asked staff if there were enough staff to handle telephone calls if the 8-item limit is enforced for this fall collection
• also, based on the tonnages expected, maybe cut back on the number of days offered for bulk pick up, that the City has gone from pick up once a week to 3 times a year - excess tonnage versus resources
• Councillor Collins also had a concern that the problem with the transfer fee - where it was to be allocated for upgrades and scales, have yet to include that in the Capital Budget

Blair Smith (Manager, Collections - Waste Management Division)

• Blair Smith noted that a Waste Strategy report will be reported to Council in September

Braden : "I'm sure one of the guilty ones. You know, I had at least 3 pick-up trucks full of - I'll call it junk - "

McCarthy (as acting Chair) : "Well, stop doing that." (laughter from Members of Council and people in galleries)

Braden : "- stop doing that. But, in fact, there was a bit of response - I mean, I sorted all the metal. So, I had at least 500 lbs of metal. And, I want to feed the scrap metal guys that go around and pick it all up. And this year, for some reason, they didn't pick it up. So, I had it there about a week in advance. And, normally speaking, there's lots of people there that are making extra bucks picking that all up and recycling it. So, unfortunately, I didn't do the taxpayers any help because the steel was heavy - at least 500 lbs worth of steel. But, we've got a problem here and that the expectation - certainly in my neighbourhood - is junk day is, all of the junk you can put in the end of the driveway. And, even if you can't see over it. So, that expectation - even if we've had these limits, they've never been enforced. So, we need to - we actually need the help of the press on this because we got to get the message out. I can handle the fact that they're going to say that we've cut down on service. But, the real issue is, we've been permissive in the past and we've allowed this. So, we - and if we don't publicize this well, everybody is going to be angry."

McCarthy (as acting Chair) : "That's what, that's what this strategy is all about."

Braden : "So, the whole thing here is that we need to spend a bit of money on communication. I like the idea about reduction in cost to go to the transfer station during that period of time because there's going to be huge amounts left on every driveway, right. So, then something has to be done with that. So, I commend staff for being a bit creative. I don't know if it's perfect. But, it's a good try and I think it's worth trying. So, I just wanted to say that we got a communications task that we need to win."

McCarthy (as acting Chair) : "Thanks, Councillor Braden. Councillor Whitehead and then I'm going to call the Motion on the Question."

Whitehead : "Well, one of the challenges is that what used to be taken - just talking to Councillor Pearson - what used to be taken in regular garbage pick-up, is no longer being picked up. So, it's pushed off to bulk. I mean, something simple as, the example I heard was an old lawn chair. You know, unless you put it in a garbage bag, it won't be picked up. And, it now becomes bulk and you know, so does that mean that 8 lawn chairs now would supercede the 8 items and therefore, a couch that might be next to them will not be picked up? I'm a bit concerned about mid-stream policy development. I mean, if we develop a policy, it's a policy that should be upheld throughout the year. How many bulk pick-ups do we have in a year? - to the staff.

Blair Smith (Manager, Collections - Waste Management Division) : "To you, Madam Chair, we have - multi-res is 52 weeks a year, it's call-in service; single family residence is 3 times."

Whitehead : "Three times a year. We average it out over a year, in our experience do we have - maybe I should make this question - or ask this question first. Last year, did we have the same thing: 3 bulk pick-ups, through 2003, or 4, sorry, 2004?"

Blair Smith (Manager, Collections - Waste Management Division) : "Last year it was 5. It was scheduled four and a June one was added."

Whitehead : "A June one was added. So, we understand the amounts and the frequencies from the past years. And, we didn't address that when we reduced the amount of bulk pick-up for this year."

Blair Smith (Manager, Collections - Waste Management Division) : "No, that's not quite correct. What we found was, is that we looked at the past history and we knew basically in January and March which is when there was 2 events last year - very little tonnage, very little tonnage. And, we found that in May, or June and the fall, is typically when you get September, is typically a very heavy month - heavier months would be the June that we found and September's the second heaviest and the rest of the year is kind of consistent."

Whitehead : "You know it's funny. I fell like I'm the guy in the grocery store going to the - where you have 8 items and then you know you have a bundle of apples. Is that like, is that over the 8 items. You know, I used the analogy about the lawn chairs - 8 lawn chairs stacked and a couch. Does that mean that that individual -through to staff - would be over and above the, this policy?"

Blair Smith (Manager, Collections - Waste Management Division) : "I believe what we would - what we would be doing, is like what's indicated in the report is that those items that are typically bulk items - if you have lawn chairs and you've got a couch, we're not going to take the lawn chairs and leave the couch - No, that's not the intent. Staff would be directed to ensure that we take, you know, those items that are typically bulk. The issue that you raise is probably the one - and if someone stuck out 9 or 10 items, and they happen to be lawn chairs, or something, we're not going to leave a lawn chair at the curbside - something of that nature. What we're trying to head off, here, Councillor, is a clear abuse of what the intent of the bulk sys - day is for - the bulk event is for. And, in excess of 90% of us typically abide by - and put out a reasonable amount, possibly excluding Councillor Braden, of course," (laughter from Members of Council and galleries) "But, the intent is typically to get rid - and not to renovate your home - and what we were experiencing is - and we've indicated a pathway on the website, where you will see the entire front yard is full of bulk or the entire length of the home is full of bulk items."

Whitehead : "No, I agree that something needs to be done. I'm just concerned about - do it in a fair way - and ensure that we don't get carried away on actually numbering the items and that discretion is exercised and common sense prevails because my biggest concern is that I'm going to get complaints about somebody having 8 lawn chairs and a couch out and the 8 lawn chairs were not picked up, but the couch was." (It may have been that Councillor Whitehead meant to make the statement that the lawn chairs - which are lighter weight - were picked up, but the couch - which is not easily moved was not - in order to make his point, as that is the way he stated this analogy a couple of speakers back.) "So, if I have that kind of assurance from staff that that kind of discretion will be exercised and what you need here, what you're asking from Council here is, at least a bench mark that you can go to when there's cases of abuse, then I have no problem supporting that. Thank you."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Thanks Councillor Whitehead. It's been Moved and seconded - Moved by Councillor" (Can hear in the background the Deputy Clerk indicating that quorum is needed before voting. Clerk went out to get one of the Councillors.) "sorry, we need quorum - and on this, we're going to, hopefully waive the rules of order that we allow Council to bring in food because there's not enough of us to keep rotating. So, if I can ask for a Motion on that when we get a quorum, we'll do that and keep it going. And, if you can bear with me, we're doing well and we're going to get through this. Okay. We'll just wait for a second. (Deputy Clerk brings back Councillor Mitchell - quorum achieved again.) And, it has been Moved by Councillor Pearson and Seconded by Councillor Ferguson Item 8.6 be moved and endorsed. All in favour?" (hear Councillors say carried)

Waive Rule of Procedure - Food in Council Chambers (Braden/Whitehead - CARRIED)

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) "And, that Item is carried. And, now I'm going to ask that the rules of procedure be waived so that we allow food in the Council Chambers. Moved by Councillor Braden; seconded by Councillor Whitehead. All in favour? Carried."

8.7 Tripartite Funding Arrangement between the City of Hamilton, The Province of Ontario and the Government of Canada to address Hamilton Harbour Remedial Action Plan (HHRAP) (PW04096) (City Wide)

(Whitehead / Pearson - CARRIED)
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
committee-of-the-whole/2004/Aug11/PW04096.pdf)

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Now let's go on to Item 8.7, which is the Tripartite Funding Arrangement the City of Hamilton, The Province of Ontario and the Government of Canada to address Hamilton Harbour Remedial Action Plan and it's been Moved by Councillor Whitehead -" (Councillor Braden goes to go out of Chambers) "Councillor Braden, just stay in here for a quick second - seconded by Councillor Pearson. All in favour of that? That Motion is Carried."

8.8 Permanently Close and Transfer Part of Ship Street to the Hamilton Port Authority (Ward 3) (LS04004) ( Whitehead / Pearson - CARRIED)
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
committee-of-the-whole/2004/Aug11/LS04004.pdf)

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Onto Item 8.8 'Permanently Close and Transfer Part of Ship Street to the Hamilton Port Authority' in Ward 3. And, Councillor Whitehead has a question on that item."

Whitehead : "Through to staff. I just need some clarification. I don't recall, I was quite involved in the discussions and negotiations at the time. And, I don't remember us coming to the agreement of the Ship Street. So, I - was that a subsequent negotiation? Or, was that part of the original discussions? Can I get some clarification on that? Was that a supplementary discussion?"

Staff (not sure who - might have been Lee Ann Coveyduck - but not sure) : Through you, Madam Chair, I believe it was part of the original discussions. I was not involved in those discussions myself, but I believe it was part and parcel of the entire discussions."

Whitehead : "Okay, like I said, I'm just asking for that clarification because I don't recall that particular issue being raised through those discussions. Thank you."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : (as Councillor Whitehead finished his sentence, was about the time Councillor McCarthy took a bit of something to eat - as COW was going through lunch and a motion had been passed to allow food into the Chambers - so she wasn't ready to speak just yet. So, her first statement was a bit delayed.) "There's a reason why they don't allow food in Council Chambers." (giggles from the Chamber) "Did you have -" (to Councillor ?) "You're going to move the report. Thank you very much. . . we need one more for quorum." (suggested by someone - I think Councillor Mitchell - off microphone that they just break for lunch.) "We're going to lose too many people if we break. Just wait." (Councillor Mitchell says something, couldn't hear it, but it was something funny, then Councillor McCarthy says the next statement jokingly) "Behave yourself, Councillor." (giggles from Members of Council and the Chamber. Wait for 10 seconds then meeting continues when quorum regained.) "Anyway, this motion's been Moved by Councillor Whitehead and seconded by Councillor Pearson. All in favour of that Motion? No, no, Councillor Collins, you have a question on the Motion."

Collins : "That would make it, Madam Chair, subject to the terms of 2000 settlement agreement between the Port Authority and the City - It's just to ensure that, in fact, it is to the letter of the -"

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "That's in sync. I would think that's very much in sync. Is there any comments from staff?

Collins : "Understanding it's been referenced in the bulk of the explanation of the report. I know that that agreement's been amended several times and I would hesitate to suggest that we change it - "

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Good precautionary. Yes."

Collins : "even in a minor nature."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Moved and seconded - all in favour? 8.8 - that motion is carried. Thank you."

8.9 Tax Applications Processed Under Section 358 of the Municipal Act, 2001 (FCS04100)
(Bruckler / Whitehead - CARRIED )
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
committee-of-the-whole/2004/Aug11/
FCS04100%20-%202004%20Section%20358s%20June.pdf)

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "8.9 ' Tax Applications Processed Under Section 358 of the Municipal Act, 2001. ' Councillor Bruckler. Okay, Moved by Councillor Bruckler, seconded by Councillor Whitehead. All in favour of that motion? That motion is carried. Thank you Council."

8.10 City of Hamilton - 2003 Municipal Performance Measurement Results (CM04004(a)) - (City Wide) ( Whitehead / Mitchell - CARRIED )
(http://www.hamilton.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
committee-of-the-whole/2004/Aug11/
CM04004a%20-%202003%20MPMP%20Results.pdf)

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "We're onto 8.10 ' City of Hamilton - 2003 Municipal Performance Measurement Results. ' What's the will of Committee? Councillor Collins."

Collins : "Madam Chair, just based on the prior discussion that we had regarding the budget reduction plans, mid-year plans and in light of 4.4 under this report where is says transportation of roads. Its percentage of paved lane kilometres rated as good to very good, you can see that from 2001 to 2003, we're substantially slipping there in the percentages of the, of what we've experienced with maintenance and Capital upgrades." (4.4 Percentage of paved lane kilometres rated as good to very good (estimate) - 59%(2003), 62%(2002), 70%(2001) Appendix 'A' page 1 of 23) "How will we reconcile those figures with possibly budget reductions in the same area. Can I ask through you, to staff if we'll take this report into consideration, when, in fact, they come back with service level reductions to committee or council later this year, or even as part of the 2005 budget process."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Through you to Glen. Thank you."

Glen Peace - City Manager : "Through you, Madam Chair, to the Councillor. I mean, I think the intent of this, is exactly that - another one of the tools that would help you in making your budget deliberations clearer. This will come before you each year, as well as a comparative year over year on the OMBI" (Ontario Municipal Benchmarking Inititative website: http://www.caobenchmarking.ca/index.asp) "as well, with number of other issues that we're comparing. So, this is the mandatory one from the Province with the specifics OMBI lists a number of other initiatives that you're doing comparison. And, you tend to say, quite frankly, yes, you would use those in each of the budget years for another tool."

Collins : "Through you, Madam Chair, is it our intent as part of maybe the budget process, to set some kind of a benchmark to say ideally we'd like to, um - "

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Target"

Collins : "Target this percentage of good roads within the municipality and retain that level of service over the short or long term? And further to that, you know, if we are going to establish a benchmark, you know, do we have a phased-in approach to that plan; is it something that we would look at over the course of several budget cycles. It's great to have the information before us to show us how we're fairing. But, you know, if we don't have goals or objectives in regards to maintenance levels - "

Glen Peace - City Manager : "Through you, Madam Chair, to the Councillor. I think, again, I would respond that the budget process belongs to Council. And, we would certainly take the direction from you. As I did mention in the presentation, it is CMT's" (City Management Team) "position and certainly supported by our broader management team that we build a process that allows us to build on year over year; that sets short-, medium- and long-term goals; and it clearly is our intention, when we return on September 8 th to provide you with a starting point for those kinds of discussions that would carry into the strategy sessions that Councillor McHattie's looking for and that is setting your priorities, if you will, on the short-, medium- and long-term."

Collins : "Okay. Then I would ask, as part of the information that might come forward in the future, that for the purposes of the 2005 Budget, we look at, at the very minimum, 70%. I'm not suggesting that we endorse that today, as the, as the goal or the objective. But, I'm suggesting that staff come forward with whatever funding allotment might be required to allow the Municipality to get back where it was in 2001 at the 70% level. So it'd be for information purposes and for discussion purposes."

Glen Peace - City Manager : "Through you, Madam Chair. I'll take that as staff direction. We'll report back."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Thank you, Councillor Collins. Councillor Mitchell, please."

Mitchell : "Just along the lines, Madam Deputy Mayor, as Councillor Collins, concerns me, too -the roads issue. And, it needs to be brought back to Public Works. I.e. when we have as rated as good to very good estimate, I asked a few years ago - and an example is Dartnall Road coming onto the Linc." (Lincoln Alexander Parkway) "The entrance onto the Linc off of Dartnall Road is a bend. And, that bend has got a crack in it around that a motorcycle wheel would fall in and nobody's decided to put any - I guess the other Municipalities to put that black tar or whatnot to fill the crack to keep the salt out of it to have the road last longer. Now, on a scale of 'good' to 'very good,' where does that fit? Because, if that curve getting onto the Linc - which should've lasted far longer than what it has, and it should have the black tar put on it now - is in the 'very good' category, I'm a little bit scared, here, on the lawsuits that are going to come forward on this issue going from 70% to 59 [%] and this is happening throughout. I travelled Niagara the other day and down in Grimsby - a beautiful town, growing of course, Ridge Road down in Grimsby has just newly been tarred and chipped. Because they must think that tarring and chipping is a cost-effective way of doing some roads' maintenance. Where a paved road will crack and the salt gets in and it heaves all over, a tar and chip road flexes and it's more affordable to build. So, that type of information has got to be looked at by our Public Works, because we're going backwards too fast and we will never ever get all the roads in this municipality paved before the ones that we pave now are a total mess and have to be re-built so we're going backwards. That needs to be brought to Public Works . . . ."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Thanks, Councillor Mitchell. Thank you. Councillor Bruckler."

Bruckler : "Yes, I find this report rather excellent, not only does it give us sort of the high-level, but I think that the fact that is has sort of an historical perspective to it, as well, is really critical to at least seeing in which direction that we're moving in with some of these. And, I also like the fact with respect to the comments that they relate to, to the historical analysis that's provided. So, I think we can use this bit of information very effectively with respect to budget and direction within the municipality as part of our strategic direction, as well. So, I welcome this."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "And, Councillor Merulla."

Merulla : "Just a point of clarification, Madam Chair. With respect to the Police Service category, it reads in the second part of that" (Item 3.2 of the report - Appendix 'A' page 1 of 23) "the total crime rate per 1000 people. Now, as you move further down, the 'Total crime rate can be influenced by a number of factors including: economic, social, demographic and political.'" (see page 9 of the report) "Can I have a clarification on the political contribution to crime in the City?"

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : (jokingly to Merulla) "It's you." (giggles from the Chamber) "Just kidding. Through to whoever can answer wants to take that one on. I'm not touching that one with a ten-foot pole." (no one answering)

Merulla : "So there's no answer?"

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Anybody, going once, going twice. Staff - who wrote the report? Want to hold that one over for - "

Merulla : ". . . there's really no answer to it? I'm just curious. Was it a typo?

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "I don't think so. We're not sure. The author of the report's not here . . . Joe's going to have a shot at it."

Joe Rinaldo - General Manager, Finance and Corporate Services : "It's political in a broader context as opposed to the politicians, I suspect."

Merulla : "No, no, I realize that. But, what political aspects in our community are contributing to crime rates?"

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Do we want to go to the police?"

Glen Peace - City Manager : "I think the issue is probably the Criminal Code of Canada, those kinds of issues; Federal Government politics - policies; issues that drive the way the police and the court run; parole issues, half-way houses - those kinds of initiatives."

Merulla : "Okay . . ."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : (jokingly says) "They don't mean us."

Merulla : "Because, I think that would fall under the social category. Perhaps we can amend that, just to exclude that because I've never actually quite seen it put that way, before. And, I think that would fall under the social component of that sentence. So, I don't think I need a motion to amend that. But, can we strike that part out - I'd be really appreciative - or has this been already submitted?"

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Anybody want to respond to that one? Can we -"

Glen Peace - City Manager : "This is before you for information and as far as the copy, I mean, I can certainly talk to staff and bring clarification."

McCarthy : "How about your concerns are duly noted, Councillor?"

Merulla : "Okay, Thank you."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Is that good? Okay. Councillor Ferguson."

Ferguson : "Thank you, Madam Chair. Percentage of waste-water estimated to have been by-passed" [treatment] (See page 2 Appendix 'A' of the the Report, Item 6.5) in 2001 was 4.1[9]% and last year [2003] and last year it's 0.45% - 90% decrease. Is this because of CSO" (Combined Sewer Overflow) "tanks that have come on line?"

Ferguson : "In 2001, the by-passed - the volume by-pass is 4.19 and in '03 it's 0.45. That's a 90% decrease. Is that because of CSO tanks have come on line?"

Staff (again, not sure who) : "Through you, Madam Chair. That's correct."

Ferguson : "What do you, what numbers do you see that 5 years hence?"

Staff : "The HHRAP (Hamilton Harbour Remedial Action Plan) targets and the [Ministry of the Enviornment's Procedure] F-5-5 guidelines recommend one by-pass event per year per out-fall. That is a point source out-fall. That's our goal by 2015."

Ferguson : "Okay. Thank you."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Thank you Councillor Ferguson. And, Councillor Braden, you're the final speaker and I'm going to call the question on the Motion."

Braden : "Can I, I'd like to just raise a couple of issues, Madam Chair. Under the first page of the Appendix 'A' where it talks about the breakdown between 4.1 and 4.5 of Transportation / Roads. I'd like to make a suggestion that in the future, if you look under 4.1, that the staff provide us with what they think would be a sustainable level that we should be aiming at. And, that would make a number of assumptions. But, you know, when you look at the $2, 267.32 [per lane kilometre] the significant drop that it has between the past - and we talked about this earlier today. Some people might think that this is an improvement. But, we need to know what it really should cost year after year. And so, I'm just asking if you could supply that number - or a range for the future. That would be helpful. Because if we haven't spent enough, then we haven't done our job. As well, I'd like to make a suggestion under land use planning, because I don't know where else it fits." (See page 3 of Appendix 'A', Item 10.1-5) "Maybe we should put a topic or a category in there to remind us about if we're making some headway. And, one of the areas where we might make headway would be density, in an urban area. People may not agree. But, low density is just going to continue to cost us money. And, if we're talking about re-intensification and growing smartly, obviously density is a big component of that. So I think, as a suggestion, that should be in there in the future to see if we're making any progress. I have some others, but they're less important than that."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Just for information, or for direction for staff. Thank you very much. And, may I have a Mover of the Motion, please? Moved to Receive - Councillor Whitehead and seconded by Councillor Mitchell. All in favour of that Motion? That Motion is carried. Thank you."

8.11 Demolition Permit - 315 Beach Boulevard (PD04223) (Ward 5) ( added item - handed out - no hyperlink to website)

( Collins / Bruckler - CARRIED )

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Now we're onto Item 8.11 'Demolition Permit - 315 Beach Boulevard' and as an added item. And, what's Committee's will? Moved by Councillor Collins; seconded by Coucnillor Bruckler. All in favour? That motion is carried. Thank you. And, Members of Council, you have before your and Item 9.1 - a Report from the Advisory Committee for Persons with Disabilities respecting - we have an extra item, don't we. That's right.

8.12 Noise Exemption Application: My Speedway Festival - August 28 or 29, 2004, Flamboro Speedway, 873 5 th Concession Road West, Flamborough (PD04225) (Ward 14)

( no hyperlink to City Website for this item )

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "And, I don't have it on this one here, but it is 8.12. And it was Flamboro Speedway." (some direction to Councillor McCarthy from someone off microphone) "Table it?" (some direction from Councillor Whitehead off microphone) "This is true, but I think Councillor Braden was going to speak to it before it's" (more direction from Councillor Whitehead off microphone) "You want it Tabled." (more direction from Councillor Whitehead off microphone.) "I think it's going in your direction, if you could allow the Councillor of the area to speak to the issue, I think you'll find that - " (more direction from Councillor Whitehead off microphone) "Okay, and, this is time sensitive, apparently, it can't be Tabled but, I understand your comments and I think they're going to be reflected in Councillor Braden's comments. Councillor Braden, go ahead and Councillor Ferguson and Councillor Whitehead."

Braden : "Thank you, Madam Chair. And first of all, I respect completely where the Councillor is going with respect to Add-Ons. This has not been brought forward by our Council. It's been precipitated by, I think, a lack of warning on behalf of the applicant, as opposed to the staff originating this. But, I want to - and this is going to take me a couple of minutes - Flamborough's unfortunately had in the past, a history of rock concerts or something like that, that have been way worse than problematic. And, there've been some fairly notorious ones. So, without picking on people, you probably know what particular area I'm talking about. And, as result of trying to control these kinds of events that often would last over a weekend - over a night, rock concerts, camping - and that's assuming everything is going right. That these weren't just a limited time-span. And, there really were problems and there really were a number of incidents that were not merely embarrassing, but somewhat threatening to neighbours. So, the former Municipality came out with - I think it was called a Special Event By-Law. So people could apply; state and describe the case. There were parameters that you had to meet and there were, perhaps, some other surprises that needed to be dealt with first and then we could deal with them. I understand, flipping to the future that in fact, this new Municipality doesn't have a special events by-law. And I understand - maybe I can understand why, things come up. So, your Church might have a special event; or your school; or a profit-making company. But, we need to be able to get a hold of this a little bit so we can measure what the consequences are and how to deal with it. Unfortunately, this had got off on a terrible start because, in fact, I believe this City and myself as the Ward Councillor weren't even informed. It's just not the way you start with a thing that could be contentious. I spoke to the by-law enforcement officer that is co-ordinating this case and, in fact, according to her that we didn't, that she knew there was an event coming but we didn't know the nature of the event. I don't have any problems with rock concerts; absolutely none. And, I don't even have a problem with some of the things that might go on at the rock concert. But, in fact, the public needs to understand this and we, being the City, we need to be able to give some level of comfort to the local residents. Because someone chose to handle the timing of this - presumably the applicant - in a way that didn't give us time to respond adequately, to know what the event even was, this puts us all in a bad predicament. Note the comments of the previous speaker. Because of this, I don't think there is sort of an onus or sort of a moral response, that because someone comes late to the table, we should abide by their request. I don't think that's the way you do business. So, again, without pointing fingers at anyone, I think probably what'll happen is here the event will go on. I do not want this government to sanction this event. I think that's inappropriate - "

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Thank you, Councillor Braden. Okay"

Braden : "I could go on, but I think enough said about the whole thing."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Councillor Ferguson."

Ferguson : "Madam Deputy Mayor, I know Inspector Bill Stewart was here this morning to speak to this. He said he was told to come back at 1:30 pm and he would like to sp -"

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "He's here."

Ferguson : "Oh."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "And, he's not a Delegation to Speak, Councillor Ferguson, it's just it - "

Ferguson : "Well, it's not a delegation, it's a staff - police. They're involved in this. I think they, I didn't know that the Inspector was here. Hi Bill."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "I'm sorry, Councillor Ferguson, what did you want?"

Ferguson : "There was concern this morning, from the Police, for this event."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Yes."

Ferguson : "I would like to hear that concern."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "And, is there someone here from the police that can speak to this issue?"

Ferguson : "He was told to come back at 1:30 pm."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "The police?"

Ferguson : "Yes."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Well, if -" (hear someone say something off microphone) "okay -Judy Downey is the By-Law Officer for the area. Judy, do you know about this concern that the police have?

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "I had requested Inspector Stewart to be here to field any questions or concerns that Members of Committee may have because they had met with the operators and unfortunately, the item came up earlier than when they were expected to be back."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Okay. So, if we want to take Councillor Braden's direction that would be that we turn this down and we've got Councillor Whitehead to speak to it afterwards. Staff is not here to field questions. I'm at the will of Committee, what you want to do with this. But, you've heard from the Ward Councillor. Councillor Whitehead, you're next."

Whitehead : "One of the things, I'm sort of familiar with the booking of bands and organizing activities and festivals. And, you need some lead-way time to do all these kinds of things and make the proper applications, negotiations, etc. I'm concerned, once again, that I find a walk on item here at Council. And, this is a process issue. And, I guess I need to know through staff at what point - is this an annual event, one; two, at what point were we made aware that 'My Speedway Festival' was taking place on August 28 and 29 and they would need a noise exemption?"

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "We found out about the event as a result of area residents' concerns. But, the applicants were not aware that they were required to apply for a noise exemption by-law. They did consult with every other department relevant to the activities taking place there, such as Health, Fire, and the Police Service."

Whitehead : "So, I guess there's something lacking in our process. If, in fact, other departments have, in fact, been working with this organization. And, this organization wasn't aware until more recently that there was certain requirements that they had to meet in respect to the noise, I'm concerned about the fact that if it happened to this particular applicant, how many other applicants are out there that can miss this whole thing. I mean, is there some way we can strengthen the process to ensure that any organization in this community who's making application or working with other departments is aware of all the requirements that they have to meet."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Thanks Councillor Whitehead and I think Judy's acknowledging the fact that something fell through the cracks and that there's the ability through communication networking to ensure that all the interested parties are kept informed."

Whitehead : "Great. Thank you."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Do you want to respond, Judy, to that?"

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "The difference with this application is that this event is taking place on private property. The SEAT" (Special Event Advisory Team - http://www.hamilton.ca/culture-and-rec/events/event-info.asp) "committee normally addresses all those events that are taking place on public property. But, this was private property and unfortunately, at this point, there isn't anything regulatory. We are working on it to bring a by-law forward. But, at this point we don't have it in place and unfortunately, there was some misinformation. But, as soon as we found out, we contacted the organizers and that's why this was brought on today."

Whitehead : "Now, it's my understanding that there is a history, though. I think I heard from the Ward Councillor that there has been a history in respect to these kinds of activities taking place at, at the Speedway. So, I guess - understanding history - where was the work being done to link the past problems and issues of the residents with this activity? Where was that linked?"

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "Those events took place at Courtcliffe Park a number of years ago, which was the reason that the Special Event by-law was put in place in Flamborough. At the Speedway, they are licensed as a motor vehicle race-track and they, this is the first time that they will be endeavouring to carry on a one time event such as this. They are licensed and they are a legal non-conforming use on that property."

Whitehead : "Okay. Thank you."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Thank you. I'm going to go -" (hear Councillor Merulla - I think - in background say something) "I'm going to go to Councillor Braden. And thank you very much, Councillor Merulla, I think it's been Moved - Councillor Braden, you speak to this issue, I think you've got a Motion."

Braden : "Well, Madam Chair, in front of me, there are really two issues. There's the whole even right in front of here. There's an application for a noise exemption. And, clearly, on the noise exemption, I want to say simply, 'No.' So, I Move to Deny the application for a noise exemption because I think it's appropriate and I've given my reasons in advance. Then, if we want to deal with the event itself, we may want to, in fact, hear from the Chief or in terms of special comments about policing because we need to know what our position is assuming they go ahead with this event - but it's not being sanctioned by us - and clearly my Motion says they don't have the noise exemption. So, you want to keep it straight - the first Motion is: that we not approve the noise exemption for this particular event. I Move that."

MOTION - McCarthy (as Acting Chair ): "It's been moved by Councillor Braden and seconded by Councillor Merulla that the Noise Exemption be denied and I'll ask, all in favour of that denial? That Motion is Carried."

(Braden / Merulla - CARRIED)

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "The implications of that. Judy, could you speak to in terms of the City's position now and what are the, what's the fallout of that?"

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "We'll meet with the applicants and discuss with them what their position is, if as to what next step they would like to take. And, as a result of that, we will have to discern what enforcement we will impose."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "So, clearly from City Council's perspective, that's been denied. So, if they go forward, they're in violation."

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "The noise exemption only speaks to the amplified noise."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Right."

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "And, we would speak to them to determine whether or not they are going to go forward and take whatever enforcement steps we need to take because they will be in violation of the noise by-law."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "So, we're almost anticipating non-compliance of this Council decision today?"

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "No."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "No?"

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "No. The applicants have co-operated with us all along this process and I would expect that they would continue to do so."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Okay. And, Councillor Braden, was there a second part?"

Braden : (microphone was not turned on at the beginning of Councillor Braden's comment) ". . . that the event goes ahead. And, that there might be some problems. Residents need to know that we have staff there, I think, during the event. I think in particular if there is one event one day. For instance, if there is car racing one day and there is a rock concert the next day, we need to provide man-power to see that camping doesn't occur, because camping isn't allowed, and that's something that seems to fall between the cracks. So, we need to know we have staff there to look after this because this is demanding of staff's attention. And, I need know who I can tell other people to call during that week, so that if we see things that the staff don't, we know how to get in touch with them. So, there are 2 different things."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "I think Councillor Braden is anticipating non-compliance from that, Judy. Go ahead."

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "We will enforce there consistently, as we do throughout all special events in the City. They have met with the Police and to my knowledge, the Police have outlined all of their requirements in terms of the expected attendance at the site and if area residents have a concern, they can contact me."

Braden : "How do they do that on the weekend"

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "They can contact the Contact Centre: 546-CITY and I will leave them a message. They have my cell phone number and they'll call me."

Braden : "Thank you."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Councillor Whitehead, you had a question."

Whitehead : "Well, it is a Speedway, so I assume that there is a certain level of noise that comes out of the Speedway. So, I guess the question is: How do you determine the decibels? Is that based on the ambient sound that comes from a race that is allowable there, because that is conforming?"

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "The noise level would be measured 10 metres from the sound stage - only with the amplified noise itself, not including that of the race. It's not over an above the ambient level of the race. It is solely for the amplified noise."

Whitehead : "Okay, help me understand this. So, you have a race that goes on and you have decibels of - say 100 decibels for sake of argument. You have a concert that goes on and it has 100 decibels. Would that be in compliance?"

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "The race itself operates at 110 [decibels] that's why we're not basing the noise level on the level of the racing cars themselves. The race takes place prior to any of the amplified noise in terms of the bands that are proposed. And so, it is 90 decibels, not over and above any other ambient noise out in that area."

Whitehead : "Okay. I'm just having trouble, because I mean, I know that there are car races that take place at night, as well. And, obviously, they are complying with all the regulations for the speedway. So, I guess I was trying to differentiate, if you have noise at 110 from a car race and you have noise at 110 decibels from a concert, I guess where's the issue from a noise by-law perspective?"

Judy Downey- Co-ordinator, Standards & Licensing (By-Laws - Property) : "It's just that in order for them to have amplified noise, the noise by-law requires the application for exemption to the noise. The race-track is a legal, non-conforming use, and as long as they comply with the mufflers that are required, as outlined in the licensing by-law, they are in compliance."

Whitehead : "Okay. Thank you."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Councillor Merulla."

Merulla : "I think today, we keep on debating issues after we vote on them. And, I 'm just wondering -"

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Sure. The issue's complete."

Merulla : "Okay. Thank you."

McCarthy (as Acting Chair) : "Thank you, moving on. And, that's been, and we did. We took a vote and that was the complete Motion - to deny the noise exemption. He" (I think Deputy Mayor McCarthy was referring to Councillor Whitehead's comments) "just spoke to an outside issue pertaining to that."

Continue with Part 4, Item # 9 - "Reports by Advisory / Sub-Committees"