Oct 6/04 Report
1:45 - 2:15, 'in camera' 2:15 - past 3:30 (I had to leave)

Attending:

• Members: DiIanni (Chair), Jackson, Ferguson, Merulla, and Collins
• Non-Members: Mitchell, Braden, and Whitehead
• Staff: Peace, Christensen, Rinaldo, Fenwick, Graham, Ann Pekaruk (internal auditor), and one other in the gallery.
• Press: Kevin Werner made a brief appearance later in the meeting but left with Mario Joanette and one other staffer, who were also only in briefly.
• Public: None

Agenda :
http://www.city.hamilton.on.ca/Clerk/agendas-minutes-reports/
Strategic-Planning-Budgets/2004/Oct06/Agenda.pdf

No Declarations on Interest, Delegation Requests, Consent Items, Public Hearings/Delegations, Presentations, Items Referred, or Motions.

Changes to the Agenda : Clerk added item 13.1 - A Private and Confidential item (but the clerk didn't speak into a microphone, so I didn't hear what it was about.)

DiIanni : "This was a meeting to which we invited all members of Council as well, and I'm pleased to see that there are some non-committee members here and .. "

8.1 Committee Input into the 2005 Internal Audit Work Plan (no report).

DiIanni: "You'll recall the committee asked that this item be placed on the agenda for this agenda for discussion. How do you wish to proceed on this item? And maybe, we've got our internal auditor here, and maybe Ann.would you like to provide some input on a) how you've done things and how you see moving this forward, and then we'll get members of Council to chip in".

Staff (Ann Pekaruk): ".I've drafted a very, very brief outline on how I'd like to proceed.and it was sent by email to the.committee. I'd like to go over some of the points and then if there are questions, and if the desire of the committee is.to have some input at this point I'll be taking my notes and I'll discuss it with the Councillor that's raised the issue. But basically.I'd like to meet individually with the Councillors that sit on this committee as to what type of work you'd like internal audit do.. I see that happening in the next couple of weeks. In addition I'm willing to meet with any other Councillor that expresses interest to meet, on a one to one basis within the.next two weeks. Every year I also do, what I consider a rudimentary risk analysis - an assessment of all the different functions that are performed by the City, and I would also have a list of items that I would think would be important to audit, either because they represent a high risk, or .there's a number of factors: there's a high turnover, represent a big budget number. Then in early December I'd bring a list back to this committee of everything I've gathered . and ask you to prioritize what you feel in which order these things should be done. There are limited resources so I guess it would just be working down (a list). Then in January I'd bring a formal work plan to this committee for approval.

Collins : "I'd ask to add.the central booking and accounts receivable associated with hockey organizations.. Complaints re disconnect between fees charged and outstanding balances, I'm dealing with one over the next several weeks hopefully to resolve it. Seems to be a common complaint among the number of organizations that there seems to be a lack of information to find out if there are problems or have been problems historically, for payments.. "

Ferguson : ".Ann, will your initiative be mostly fiscally driven or customer service driven as well?" Petaruk : "That is.up to this committee to decide. I'll put all of it in front of you - all the suggestions - and it will be up to this committee to decide, and it will be up to this committee to decide which direction they see the internal department taking". Ferguson : "So, it's within your purview to suggest customer services issues as well?" Pekaruk : "Yes it is".

Braden : "The central booking system.I have.hope that we're going to have that solved before the 2005.so, you can keep that on your list for now, .but we've had a long discussion at the ice rates meeting, and I think we're getting somewhere.. Second thing is please put my name on.for individual consultations".

Whitehead : He wants to know if DARTS, as an arms length agency, falls within this internal audit system. Also wants to look in to HSR - the performance aspects. Pekaruk: She says that the contact allows the municipality to go in and look at staffing, operations and other aspects, and they have done that in the past, when it was still under the Region. "If that was the desire of the committee, it could be a very focused review of a certain aspect". Whitehead "Great, well we'll talk about that". Peace: "I think maybe it's appropriate that if that's the direction that Council is going to go, that they provide some direction to do either organizational or operational reviews, versus taking it through an audit function.." DiIanni: ".We'll have some discussion.(which is) more appropriate.."

Notices of Motions :

Ferguson : "I think this is the proper forum for this, if not could you please tell me. I've got a couple of ideas and I'd just like to run them out. There's been a lot discussion lately about parking.especially downtown. The farmer's market has made a plea and a suggestion, and the two downtown BIA's have been making some suggestions, and the top of the list is parking. Downtown is on everybody's mind. I don't know if it's going to cost a lot, but I think it's time to look at the parking issue. What is the gross revenue from parking, what does it cost to collect the fees - in other words what's the net revenue - what do we actually make from parking? When I was in.that FCM (Federation of Canadian Municipalities) parking meters are apparently on the wane in most North American cities. Is the enforcement part of the cost? I guess what I'm looking for is a total business case on the parking. What is the economic spin-off of no charge parking downtown? If we charge nothing for parking - what would that do to downtown businesses? What would this do to the product (?) loss of those that are in the parking business? It's the trend of other municipalities to wean themselves from meters - meters, not necessarily lots. Why is it cheaper to park at a meter than a lot? If a free two-hour parking was introduced to the enterprise zone only, and income loss was charged to the businesses, what would the increased taxes be on the businesses? These are just questions that I think should be answered. We should address this issue. DiIanni: ".Which committee does the parking.Planning and Development? .Can we forward those questions through? .A review of our policies on parking". Ferguson: "Whether we could do that internally or hire an outside consultant - I hate using outside consultants. But what's the trend? What are other jurisdictions.doing in terms of parking in their downtown core? ...The market and the BIA's have valid arguments.."

DiIanni: ".Ok, we can leave that with you (staff)?" Any other comments?" Ferguson: "Yah". (Laughter) DiIanni : "You've been doing some thinking, how nice!" Ferguson : ".couple of long drives to funerals.talking..

Ferguson : "Every year at budget time we're confronted with affordability issues, be it taxes, water rates, HSR fares, ice hockey rates etc. .In the past based on affordability.should be based on a business cost recovery base scenario and life cycle costs. .I'd like to see Staff prepare a report to expand the BRIDGES program (subsidized recreation) currently in place, under the auspices of Mr. Fenwick in the Community Services department. I propose that we set aside 1% of all funds received by the City, including taxes, water, ice rental rates, HSR fares - any money the City takes in . except Planning and Development because they're meant to be a cost recovery. I don't even know if this is legally possible - Joe's wincing up there - but if it isn't possible let's make it possible. This would fund a reserve that would fix the program. The problem is that we have kids who can't afford ice hockey.rates, seniors who can't afford HSR fares, people who can't afford taxes or water rates. The question is affordability.. I think the BRIDGES program sets that apart. There's a means (needs?) test - yes - I can't get around that. But the means (needs?) test has to be humane.non-intrusive.and fair. That way when it comes to setting .any rate, affordability is out of the question, off the table, out of the equation. I would just like.Staff to put some meat on the bones - what it would require, what it would cost. It would mean we'd automatically put a 1% increase on everything we charge.but I think it would make other programs redundant, such as Share the Warmth. There'd be no issue about reconnect fees for Hamilton Utilities. There'd be no issue about Share the Warmth running out of money. The only hesitation I have in presenting this is that we've kind of taken a load - the social services load - that the two senior levels of government used to take. But I don't think we can afford to wait for them any longer. Hockey rates in my opinion should be $20 higher, but we can't, because some kids can't afford it. HSR rates should be higher. If we assume a 50% cost recovery rate for HSR we're not there, because people can't afford it. . And to say that seniors - blank - can't afford something, that's wrong. Because some seniors are the wealthiest people around and for them to get a senior's discount - and I'm almost there, so.. Anyway, I think we should explore that".

Merulla : "I'll be happy to second this.. It's not too dissimilar to the Opportunity Fund that we tried to establish a few years ago, except this one is all encompassing and one that will address a number of the issues around affordability. Having said that, I did speak to Joe-Ann Priel, and also she mentioned that if we to pursue such an endeavor it would be very progressive and would be considered a leader not only in Ontario but in all North America. (She) mentioned that she is putting together some background information and data.."

Jackson : ".I don't mind supporting this today, if what Councillor Ferguson is looking for is (only) a report back, because I've had my chats with Murray on the matter as well, and I'm skeptical - I'm cynical - on the matter only because (diversion.laughter and talk re Ferguson jabbing Jackson who is sitting beside him).simply because for the last four years of the new city I've heard Opportunity Fund, I've asked how much funds, and no one can give me an answer across the CMT (Corporate Management Team). I've heard this BRIDGES program, and I'd love to know now Bill (Fenwick) how much we have in the .program, how well it's working and no one can give me a definitive answer on that either. So, I appreciate that this is a philosophically different direction that Councillor Ferguson wants to take us in.. It's nice to talk in theory about these reserve funds being in place but until they are.I won't support it. But I don't mind exploring and getting information back from Staff. But.I don't know if anyone can tell me.can I have an answer on that Bill (Fenwick) ..? Rinaldo : "I can tell you about the first one, the Opportunity Fund, because it was used up in the very same year. There was some funds set aside from the Water and Waste Water budget a few years ago, I believe, about 2 years ago". Jackson : "How much Joe, do you remember?" Rinaldo : "It was about ½ million, I can't exactly recall. But it was utilized..." Jackson : "So we've got a documented list of families and people we helped to meet their bills?" Rinaldo : "I'm sure Joe-Ann would be able to tell you how that was used, but it was used at that time. . It's all gone. But with the new water and safe water drinking act there are some constraints we have to take into account, and I'm glad you're asking for a report because.there are some legislative restraints on what you can and can't do in this area". Jackson : "And on the BRIDGES program Bill? How much money do we have in there?" Fenwick : "Last year Council approved $125 thousand to come out of the Hydro Fund (Future Fund) and the trust fund to go toward the.program. That money was to be used up until, I believe, December of this year and most of it, if not all of it has been used. .We can provide that as part of the report that you requested". .

Whitehead : "Well, I congratulate Councillor Ferguson for bringing this forward. I have some concerns.(re) taking the affordability out of the equation (at budget time), and my understanding of the social demographics through reports from.in regards to affordability I don't know if we can have a large enough fund, quite frankly, to accommodate the vast plethora of services and activities in this community. What concerns me is if this is a way of providing a 'hat' program that doesn't meet all the needs, and on the other side we're making decisions because affordability is out of the equation, I don't think that's the case. And that concerns me. I would guess that the programs we currently have in place are oversubscribed, so there's not equity in regards to the distribution, and I don't know if we could afford to meet the needs of the community.. So I don't think we could ever take affordability out of the equation on the other side because I don't think we could ever create a program that could catch all. So I certainly support a report.."

Mitchell : ".I want to encourage this and support the idea.. For many, many years reports have shown that means (needs?) tests do pay for themselves. There was means (needs?) test for DARTS or the comparable in Toronto, in which they found that 25% didn't qualify for the service any more. While there's people out there that probably do, that can't get on, and people that do. So when you get into the BRIDGES program and the means (needs?) test part of it, that enables us to get the money to the people that need it. And we need to do a better job at that ! .It's all about distribution and equity, so anything that can get us to that type of program.will benefit the City. I think that you could end up saving quite a bit of money and then you could charge fees that are comparable to other cities, as long as you're treating the.(couldn't hear him)".

Braden: "I appreciate the initiative and I commend him for it. I think we're hamstrung by this argument. Come the budget time and we tie ourselves in knots. I think we're doing it for sincere reasons. People are saying - yah - we really do want accessibility. But I think we confuse what the accessibility is for. So I'd like to go through the exercise, if (it's) not too cumbersome. But I think it needs some parameters set for - what is this thing for? If it's accessibility to take rowing lessons on the lake, great. But I think that not what we're talking about. (Nor for golf) But if it is.we need to know how much of it is need and how much is sort of desire or want. And then we need to know which institutions we're not responsible for. For example.heating. So, do we go along and try to make the affordability for heating a civic responsibility? And we need to be really careful because my premise is that we can't afford what we have now.so taking on more things might be politically popular but not do-able. .Like motherhood.but completely unrealistic.. I commend.we have to start somewhere. If our bus rates are really quite affordable for 92% of the riders - we need to know that. I'm quite happy to subsidize the rest.I will certainly vote to help those that are in real need. But if we apply this.I would say that hockey is going to become an elitist sport - if it isn't now it's going to be soon. .BRIDGING.is it for needs, is it for recreation, or is it for wants? Unfortunately that's got to become part of the equation. I just mention that not to screw it up just to know what this envelope looks like. If we vote to spend $10 million so that everyone could have access to something of their choice - I don't even have to have the debate, let's vote and get it over with. But I think we're misleading ourselves to think that this is going to cover access to heating and electricity and some.I'll call it 'elite' sports, then $10million dollars isn't going to go anywhere".

DiIanni : "This is the start of a good debate.."

Whitehead : ".Just to respond to Councillor Braden. We had a report from Social Services recently about the level of youth obesity in this community (being) above the Provincial average, and how it taxes the system.municipal services etc. I think we do have a role to play and I don't classify any sport as elitist so I just want to put that out there. Having said that.this is also a middle class problem". Access to sporting programs is difficult when you have more than one child. I have two children in hockey and "I can't afford to put the third one in - period - not on my wages". Folks, even in the middle class, are making tough decisions out there, and they might pass the test (means/needs) if the number of children per household were taken into account.

DiIanni : ".The folks in the front row here are all suggesting that sailing, yachting, polo and fox hunting are all elitist sports, so.(laughter) there may be some that we may want to qualify. Anyway.."

Ferguson : ".The thrust of this is sustaining. The Opportunity Fund was not. Nor was BRIDGES out of Hydro fund, but this is. You raise everything one percent and that would fund this. . In terms of direction of Staff, it's sheltered urban transit and youth activities".

DiIanni : "Can I have a motion to move 'in camera' to discuss a personnel matter? .And I need everyone to leave except the Clerk and Catherine (Graham - Manager of Human Resources)".

Committee went 'in camera' at 2:15 and wasn't yet finished when I left the building at 3:30. Also in attendance in the 'in camera' discussion was City Manager Glen Peace.

For the interest of our readers, on the above discussed items:

A motion was defeated at a Committee of the Whole meeting (2004 Budget Finalization) on April 29/04:

'a) That the non-subsidized ice rates in the City of Hamilton be raised $20/hour effective September 1, 2004; b) That the utilization of the Bridges Program be explored for those families requiring financial assistance.'

The Motion was Defeated on a recorded vote as follows:
Yeas: Braden, Bruckler, Ferguson, McCarthy, Powers
Nays: DiIanni, Collins, Jackson, McHattie, Mitchell, Merulla, Morelli, Pearson, Whitehead

A motion was passed at the Council of the Whole meeting July 8/03: Opportunity Fund Recommendations - Affordability and Accessibility Issues Sub-Committee

'That the following programs be funded from the Opportunity Fund as follows:

1. Bridges Program (subsidized recreation) $125,000

2. Housing Emergency Loan Program (rent bank) $75,000

3. Youth Connections (computers in youth community agencies) $35,000

4. Road to Independence (assistance with public transit costs for three months upon leaving Ontario Works due to employment) $65,000

5. Accreditation for Immigrants (skills validation/certification for immigrants on Ontario Works) $100,000

6. Greater Hamilton Food Share (building purchase assistance) $100,000

TOTALS $500,000